Nine major out of a rifle?

[RJH]

Wondering if anybody has ever tried their 9 mm major open gun loads out of a rifle to see what kind of velocities they get. I don't know if blowback guns could handle nine major, or if you would have to have some sort of single shot or bolt gun, but I'm curious as to what they would do with the longer barrel. If anybody's ever tried it, let me know what you found. 

 

This is not a quest to make major out of a rifle, it's a question of how fast does major handgun ammo go out of a rifle. Basically wondering what the fastest you could drive a 9 mm out of a 16-in barrel if you were limited to something like 60,000 PSI and whatever overall length you could stuff into the chamber LOL. Probably talking a 124 grain here

[Dr. Phil]

I wonder if the TC Contender series was aver chambered for the 9mm?

That barrel should handle major.

I shot a 30 Herrett for many years. 110 gr bullet at around 2100 fps. Nice round! But rather load. Perhaps one reason that I wear hearing aid now?

Edited April 22 by Dr. Phil

[36873687]

say most 9 major is loaded long wont chamber in pcc. an if it did u get bullet set back an destroy the rifle

[RJH]

42 minutes ago, 36873687 said:

say most 9 major is loaded long wont chamber in pcc. an if it did u get bullet set back an destroy the rifle

 

 

I get that. Cutting a chamber or using a bolt gun would be completely fine in this scenario

[Farmer]

5 hours ago, RJH said:

Wondering if anybody has ever tried their 9 mm major open gun loads out of a rifle to see what kind of velocities they get. I don't know if blowback guns could handle nine major, or if you would have to have some sort of single shot or bolt gun, but I'm curious as to what they would do with the longer barrel. If anybody's ever tried it, let me know what you found. 

 

This is not a quest to make major out of a rifle, it's a question of how fast does major handgun ammo go out of a rifle. Basically wondering what the fastest you could drive a 9 mm out of a 16-in barrel if you were limited to something like 60,000 PSI and whatever overall length you could stuff into the chamber LOL. Probably talking a 124 grain here

Here ya go. You can compare many lengths. 
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

[Haywizzle]

5 hours ago, Farmer said:

Here ya go. You can compare many lengths. 
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

That's a pretty cool website, thanks! Their .22LR data is very close to the chrono info I have on my Ruger Mark II that I had chopped to 2.1" before and after the barrel cut.

 

Concerning nine major out of a PCC barrel, I have done it. My major load is a precision Delta 124gr at 1.180" going about 1380 FPS out of a 5" trubor. I was able to shoot it successfully in an older Colt with a very heavy buffer, the Vltor A5 Steel H4 at 9.6oz, with a Tubb's .308 flat wire spring. I did not get to chrono it, but it was definitely spicy. I don't recommend it.

[RJH]

6 hours ago, Farmer said:

Here ya go. You can compare many lengths. 
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

 

 

I've seen that one, but they don't have anything close to a nine major load. 357 gets a big jump going to a rifle because of the higher powder capacity than nine, but nine major I would think would be somewhere between 9 mm and 357 as far as the velocity jump is concerned but, that's just me speculating LOL. Maybe somebody has done it. 

[RJH]

18 minutes ago, Haywizzle said:

That's a pretty cool website, thanks! Their .22LR data is very close to the chrono info I have on my Ruger Mark II that I had chopped to 2.1" before and after the barrel cut.

 

Concerning nine major out of a PCC barrel, I have done it. My major load is a precision Delta 124gr at 1.180" going about 1380 FPS out of a 5" trubor. I was able to shoot it successfully in an older Colt with a very heavy buffer, the Vltor A5 Steel H4 at 9.6oz, with a Tubb's .308 flat wire spring. I did not get to chrono it, but it was definitely spicy. I don't recommend it.

 

 

Drag out that Chrono and get back to us LOL. 

 

 

Did it bulge the brass real bad or did you notice? I figured if you were to use something like nine major out of one of the blowback guns you'd have to use a heavy spring and buffer or something

Edited April 22 by RJH

[Joe4d]

33 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

 

I've seen that one, but they don't have anything close to a nine major load. 357 gets a big jump going to a rifle because of the higher powder capacity than nine, but nine major I would think would be somewhere between 9 mm and 357 as far as the velocity jump is concerned but, that's just me speculating LOL. Maybe somebody has done it. 

Corbon 125 +p in a 5" 1911 is 164 pf,, and only pics up a few fps in the longer barrel carbines.   169 in the Berreta storm

 

[Braxton1]

Hornady 135 Critical Duty will make Major out of a 16" PCC.  It does not out of my 5" Shrouded PCC.

 

 

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Corbon 125 +p in a 5" 1911 is 164 pf,, and only pics up a few fps in the longer barrel carbines.   169 in the Berreta storm

 

 

 

But that doesn't really tell us much does it.

 

 I don't know how much gas the Corbin load has. But I do know that open guns that are getting 170 Plus power factor and really working at comp have a lot of extra gas that a longer barrel would probably crank velocities up higher than any nine created to operate in a normal gun. I say probably because apparently nobody has ever chronographed this stuff

 

Also, in a lot of major loads people make the oal longer to get more powder in the gun. Generally speaking, more powder, with more time to burn in a longer barrel, the larger the velocity increases. But once again that's going off some other stuff and speculating.

 

And we can't forget a lot of open guns are getting 170 plus power factor with popple holes close to the chambers. At least a lot closer than 5 in

[Joe4d]

yeh but then we need a beta tester.. LOts of folks have fired lots of majors in typical 1911 set ups and not died, so we dont have to go uncharted.
Avg pressure sends rounds down range, peak pressure blows up guns. With the slow powders folks are running and the fact its making all that gas to work a pistol comp leads me to believe the pressure hasnt peaked in the short barrels and the already off the chart pressures would go even higher in a closed 16" barrel.
 

[shred]

20 years ago with 38 Supercomp I shot 9.6 of 3N38 under a 121gr HAP from a 16" barrel Mech-Tech.  1623 FPS for 196 PF.  Same load did 1392 in a 5" comp gun at the same time. 

 

7.6gr 7625 and a 124 gr MG JHP (My Open Major load at the time) went 1357 fps pistol & 1562 in the rifle.

 

Notes say the brass did not look good after the experience so after that I desisted except for minor loads.

 

[RJH]

2 hours ago, shred said:

20 years ago with 38 Supercomp I shot 9.6 of 3N38 under a 121gr HAP from a 16" barrel Mech-Tech.  1623 FPS for 196 PF.  Same load did 1392 in a 5" comp gun at the same time. 

 

7.6gr 7625 and a 124 gr MG JHP (My Open Major load at the time) went 1357 fps pistol & 1562 in the rifle.

 

Notes say the brass did not look good after the experience so after that I desisted except for minor loads.

 

 

Thanks, that's at least getting closer to what I am asking. I was thinking that 200-250 fps increase in 9major might be possible and your super loads are in that realm. Maybe somebody has done the same with 9mm

[Farmer]

What I find interesting is how some rounds/loads will drop velocity at a certain length and then pick back up an inch later. And don’t say barrel drag because it shouldn’t return at the next longer length. It’s either mis-data or maybe harmonics or the moon’s gravity. 

[caspian guy]

I'll try to remember to do it the next time I chrono.

[cvincent]

I’ve actually wanted to try AA1680 with 100gr bullet out of a PCC. See if it does anything.  It’s a gassy powder for 300blk subs.  11gr will cycle an AR.   

[RangerTrace]

I can tell you that if I shoot duty ammo out of my PCCs, I will often get some hot debris on my face....keep in mind, I'm a lefty and my face is on the same side as the ejection port.  Never happens with softer shooting ammo.

[zzt]

On a lark I chrono'd my 9mm minor ammo today.  124gr Plated over 4.4gr AA2 @ 1.135"  OAL.  134 PF out of a 5" 2011, and 168 PF out of my 16" PCC barrel.

 

I'm not as daring as @shred so I'm not shooting my 184 PF major ammo out of my PCC.   10.8gr AA7 under a 115 JHP.  It goes and average of 1600fps out of a 5" barrel.  I can't imagine what that would be out of a 16" barrel.

[Dr. Phil]

On a side note, I was just looking at the 22TM in a pistol and rifle. 

pistol @ 2066fps.

rifle @ 2752.

If that is any indication, then WOW. I bet the major would do 3000.

[shred]

I highly doubt you'll get a 9mm up to 3000 fps with a major load.  Too much volume in the barrel for the case.

 

It's pretty common as @zzt found out for minor loads to make (pistol) major PF in a longer barrel.

 

[Farmer]

On 4/25/2024 at 12:52 PM, zzt said:

On a lark I chrono'd my 9mm minor ammo today.  124gr Plated over 4.4gr AA2 @ 1.135"  OAL.  134 PF out of a 5" 2011, and 168 PF out of my 16" PCC barrel.

 

I'm not as daring as @shred so I'm not shooting my 184 PF major ammo out of my PCC.   10.8gr AA7 under a 115 JHP.  It goes and average of 1600fps out of a 5" barrel.  I can't imagine what that would be out of a 16" barrel.

Very similar to rifle rounds in shorter bbl’s. General rule of thumb was 300 fps when going from a rifle length, 22” to a handgun length 14-16”. I tested it with the ones I had both for and it pretty much worked out to 200-300fps. This was with 223 and 708. 

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

Very similar to rifle rounds in shorter bbl’s. General rule of thumb was 300 fps when going from a rifle length, 22” to a handgun length 14-16”. I tested it with the ones I had both for and it pretty much worked out to 200-300fps. This was with 223 and 708. 

The issue with high power loads in a PCC isn't if the rifle can take it, it can. The issue is the bolt doesn't lock up, it's blow back. Yes a lot of full auto uses blow back, but not in the high pressure rounds and as the pressure increases the need for heavy bolts and springs increases. 

 

[zzt]

Well, I just gave up.  Low power steel loads for the 16" are filthy dirty.  I'm lucky if I can make it though a six stage event without the firing pin jamming because of all the crud that gets deposited in the  channel.  168 PF is hard on the shoulder at the end of the day.  So I just ordered a Taccom 16" sleeved barrel.  I ordered the 15 oz. version. It shouldn't be as whippy as the Wiland I shot years ago. I don't think the extra 1/2" of barrel will add much velocity.  Tim reams the chamber with a Manson reamer, so there should be no issues.   Finally, I'll be down to two 9mm loads, one minor and one major.  It used to be five different loads.

Edited April 27 by zzt

[Farmer]

14 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

The issue with high power loads in a PCC isn't if the rifle can take it, it can. The issue is the bolt doesn't lock up, it's blow back. Yes a lot of full auto uses blow back, but not in the high pressure rounds and as the pressure increases the need for heavy bolts and springs increases. 

 

My statement was more about vel loss/gain in longer shorter bbl’s and was tested in bolt or closed breech guns. ie TC Encore and bolt action rifle. I would think the blow back action would give even less gain because of more psi loss.