Dry fire before match against the rules?

[Stuey]

I don’t see the issue.  I did it all of the time.  The ranges I am not a member of, I ask the MD for a spot to dry fire practices before I sign in.

[MHicks]

Since this is about IDPA I wonder how many shooters who complain about this or that rule being unrealistic when it comes to self defense shooting also want to warm up shooting before the gunfight?

[Jim Watson]

Places I shoot, Click, Click, Click is regularly heard from the Safe Zones.  

[twodownzero]

Unless the rules have changed, handling your firearm anywhere outside of a safe area is asking to be DQed, regardless of whether the match has begun or how far away the bays are where the match has been held.  These games have had a cold range rule for decades with gun handling authorized only 1) in safe areas or 2) under the direction of an RO.  It isn't that complicated. 

[MHicks]

24 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

Places I shoot, Click, Click, Click is regularly heard from the Safe Zones.  

Yes. Safe table is the usual approved place.

[Boomstick303]

7 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

It isn't that complicated. 

 

When does the match begin and end?

 

Ranges are rather large places.  So you are telling me that every berm for a given range are automatically considered part of the match???  Therefore, they have to be cold unless under the supervision of an RO?

 

No one here is advocating to dryfire in bays that are designated for the match, or and area that would be considered the competition area.  I would think it is rather obvious if there is a section of range that are designated for any match.  I would also think it would depend on the situation from range to range.  As in my case there is a set of berms that are no where near the competition berms.  As a member of the range I can do whatever I want to in those berms until the match starts.  Once I arrive in the area of where the match is to be held I can see how you would be correct.  I do not think it is as simple as you make it sound.  

 

[Zincwarrior]

I have not seen any actual IDPA rules cited stating the OP cannot do this. There is a rule against it at the safety table, but there's been no cite one could not dry fire in another bay separate from the match yet, yes? 

[MHicks]

I think those of us in smaller more rural areas commonly have smaller ranges that use all the bays for the match. Even then, with permission, the match director will usually allow you to function test a gun. When I go to larger matches with more bays they often designate an unused bay to function test or warm up a bit. And as I mentioned some clubs consider you at the match when you pull into the parking lot. That probably doesn't apply to large ranges with many separate shootiing areas.

[motosapiens]

14 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

If you belong to the range the match is being held at and you have yet to check in for the match there is absolutely zero issue using a bay that is not part of the match to do whatever you like. As you are acting as a member of the range. I would think once you check in for the USPSA or IDPA match this would not be the case. After check in for the match you would be subjected to every aspect of the rule book. 

 

 

i think your explanation is pretty close, but there can be situations where a bay is not being used for the match, but it is still closed for the match. Our range has 7 bays in close proximity, and even tho we generally only shoot in 6 of them, that whole part of the range is closed. OTOH, we also have numerous bays in other parts of the range which are definitely not connected in any way to the match, so it would be no problem to shoot at those bays. Generally, I doubt whether it would even matter whether have checked in.

 

The easiest resolution to this problem is to simply check with the MD out of courtesy. It is very very normal for people to need to handle a gun, or test-fire, or zero an optic. I have done this at a dozen other ranges after asking the MD if there was a place where i could do it. Even at my home range, where I am one of the MD's and have been on the board, I still double-check with whoever is running the match that day and go do what I need to do.

[Boomstick303]

5 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Our range has 7 bays in close proximity, and even tho we generally only shoot in 6 of them, that whole part of the range is closed.

 

This was detailed later in the post.  

 

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

No one here is advocating to dryfire in bays that are designated for the match, or and area that would be considered the competition area.  I would think it is rather obvious if there is a section of range that are designated for any match.  I would also think it would depend on the situation from range to range.  As in my case there is a set of berms that are no where near the competition berms.

 

I agree, if near the area of the match it would always be wiser to coordinate with the MD.  

 

[twodownzero]

3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

When does the match begin and end?

 

Ranges are rather large places.  So you are telling me that every berm for a given range are automatically considered part of the match???  Therefore, they have to be cold unless under the supervision of an RO?

 

No one here is advocating to dryfire in bays that are designated for the match, or and area that would be considered the competition area.  I would think it is rather obvious if there is a section of range that are designated for any match.  I would also think it would depend on the situation from range to range.  As in my case there is a set of berms that are no where near the competition berms.  As a member of the range I can do whatever I want to in those berms until the match starts.  Once I arrive in the area of where the match is to be held I can see how you would be correct.  I do not think it is as simple as you make it sound.  

 

 

It doesn't.  If you have a gun in your hand on that range during the day of the match outside of the safe area, you are going to be DQed.  There are no special dividing lines between the other bays and the match bays.  If an RO sees you handling a gun on the grounds outside of the limited exceptions, your match is over.

[nitrohuck]

3 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

It doesn't.  If you have a gun in your hand on that range during the day of the match outside of the safe area, you are going to be DQed.  There are no special dividing lines between the other bays and the match bays.  If an RO sees you handling a gun on the grounds outside of the limited exceptions, your match is over.

 

 

A match doesn't begin or end? Well hot damn... 

 

I can't shoot a USPSA match and then go have fun on the rifle range afterwards? I guess I should be DQ'd for putting my carry gun back on as I pull out of the range? The clock needs to strike midnight for me to hit the firing-line pistol bays?

 

  

 

 

[Boomstick303]

[stick]

Here's my .02

First, let's drop the morality question because he never asked it. Second,  I understand your need to test out the footing  but...you could do that without dryfiring.  And more importantly, if you're a member of that club, why are you not familiar with the ground cover?  Lastly,  I've seen this go both ways with open bays.  I've seen public ranges have a test bay where you can fire rounds before a match and I'm a member at a club where it's not allowed in the action area.  Now if you're a quarter mile away and your club allows it...have at it.

 

[Racinready300ex]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:47 PM, Twilk73 said:

So I was at a local match this past weekend and I got there early to dry fire on an empty bay were no stages were near by. I usually dry fire at home  but I wanted to practice running in the deep stones. So I did my practice at the range. This bay was practically a quarter mile from the nearest stage. I told someone after the match and they informed me that that is a no no and I could be dq’ed for that. Is that true? Since I was at the range I did shoot a total of 30 rounds after I was done dry firing incase that makes a difference. 

 

I've never quite done that, and I don't think there is a rule against it. I have gone to my local club match and zero'd my gun on a empty bay before the match or just shot a few rounds to make sure everything was right. Not something I do often, but I've done it.

 

Now there is a catch to that. At the time the match was at a private club, only open to the public for the match. I was a member and could use any part of the facility I wanted when I wanted. The match hadn't started, and they were not using that bay for the match. In this case the match has no power to stop me from using that bay so I'd probably tell them to go pound sand. If they DQ'd me from the match I would take that to the clubs BOD or the next general membership meeting.

 

In any other case I would not expect to be able to do this, or I'd ask for permission before hand. 

[truespode]

14 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

It doesn't.  If you have a gun in your hand on that range during the day of the match outside of the safe area, you are going to be DQed.  There are no special dividing lines between the other bays and the match bays.  If an RO sees you handling a gun on the grounds outside of the limited exceptions, your match is over.

 

I shoot a lot of indoor matches and I can go to the separate bay that doesn't hold the match and shoot all I want until it is time for the match. Then I go, sign in and shoot the match.

I have even showed up with my carry gun, went to the other bay, unloaded and put the cold gun back in the holster then went signed up and shot the match. Common practice.

At my outdoor range we competition only bays and public bays. It is a very large range and none of the public bays are close to the competition bays. I can go to the public bays and do whatever I want then go sign in and shoot my match. No DQ. Again, common practice.

[Racinready300ex]

It's not crazy for majors (in uspsa) to have a practice bay you can go shoot on between stages or in the morning before the match starts. 

[motosapiens]

23 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

It doesn't.  If you have a gun in your hand on that range during the day of the match outside of the safe area, you are going to be DQed.  There are no special dividing lines between the other bays and the match bays.  If an RO sees you handling a gun on the grounds outside of the limited exceptions, your match is over.

If this is the case at your range, that's a bummer. It's not the case at the vast majority of normal ranges. But it's still smart to check with the MD.

[Ice36]

USPSA rules says first day not a time, I'm sure IDPA isn't much different so unless MD. says its OK its a DQ

6.5.3

A match, tournament or league will be deemed to have started on the first

day that competitors (including those specified above) shoot for score and

will be deemed to have ended when the results have been declared final by

the Match Director.

[nitrohuck]

1 hour ago, Ice36 said:

USPSA rules says first day not a time, I'm sure IDPA isn't much different so unless MD. says its OK its a DQ

6.5.3

A match, tournament or league will be deemed to have started on the first

day that competitors (including those specified above) shoot for score and

will be deemed to have ended when the results have been declared final by

the Match Director.

 

Nationals and Area matches with Vendor tents where you can try out guns, or with practice bays (without RO present) clearly violate this rule for USPSA then.  

[ddc]

So let me get this straight...

 

Let's say I go to a range with a match that uses 6 of the 12 available bays.

The match uses bays 1-6 while 7-12  remain available to who ever is a valid user.

 

I enter the match, I'm at the match helping set up. My buddy is over in bay 7 shooting.

After set up I go over to bay 7 to shoot the sh!t with him and check out his new blaster.

 

I pop off a couple of rounds with his new toy and then say "hey check out the gun I'm shooting today..." and I pull it out and let him try it out.

 

You are going to DQ me for that? That is ludicrous.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by ddc

[Ice36]

9 hours ago, nitrohuck said:

 

Nationals and Area matches with Vendor tents where you can try out guns, or with practice bays (without RO present) clearly violate this rule for USPSA then.  

That would have been approved by the MD. The match director sets what is approved and works with the range as to what can be done. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Ice36

[Racinready300ex]

10 hours ago, Ice36 said:

USPSA rules says first day not a time, I'm sure IDPA isn't much different so unless MD. says its OK its a DQ

6.5.3

A match, tournament or league will be deemed to have started on the first

day that competitors (including those specified above) shoot for score and

will be deemed to have ended when the results have been declared final by

the Match Director.

 

IDPA club matches can be run as a hot range per 2.11. "The issue is the sole responsibility of the local clubs and is beyond IDPA's control". 

 

Also worth noting 2.3.3 "Dropping an unladed firearm or causing it to fall while outside of the stage boundaries is not within IDPA's control and is subject to local range policy"

 

IDPA is pretty clear that they only control what happens on the stage during a match. If you're outside of the stage it's up to the club. That doesn't mean up to the MD, he's just putting on the IDPA match and his authority stops when IDPA's does. You'd need to be breaking a club rule that will force you to leave the range, or stop shooting if we're going to follow IDPA rules. 

 

[truespode]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

IDPA club matches can be run as a hot range per 2.11. "The issue is the sole responsibility of the local clubs and is beyond IDPA's control". 

 

Also worth noting 2.3.3 "Dropping an unladed firearm or causing it to fall while outside of the stage boundaries is not within IDPA's control and is subject to local range policy"

 

IDPA is pretty clear that they only control what happens on the stage during a match. If you're outside of the stage it's up to the club. That doesn't mean up to the MD, he's just putting on the IDPA match and his authority stops when IDPA's does. You'd need to be breaking a club rule that will force you to leave the range, or stop shooting if we're going to follow IDPA rules. 

 

 

Great response... busting out facts. Thank you for that.

[Ice36]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:47 PM, Twilk73 said:

So I was at a local match this past weekend and I got there early to dry fire on an empty bay were no stages were near by. I usually dry fire at home  but I wanted to practice running in the deep stones. So I did my practice at the range. This bay was practically a quarter mile from the nearest stage. I told someone after the match and they informed me that that is a no no and I could be dq’ed for that. Is that true? Since I was at the range I did shoot a total of 30 rounds after I was done dry firing incase that makes a difference. 

I'll leave it with this. My rule is, it's easier to ask if it's ok, then to appeal a DQ.