Dry fire before match against the rules?

[Twilk73]

So I was at a local match this past weekend and I got there early to dry fire on an empty bay were no stages were near by. I usually dry fire at home  but I wanted to practice running in the deep stones. So I did my practice at the range. This bay was practically a quarter mile from the nearest stage. I told someone after the match and they informed me that that is a no no and I could be dq’ed for that. Is that true? Since I was at the range I did shoot a total of 30 rounds after I was done dry firing incase that makes a difference. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Twilk73

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

You’re at a uspsa match right?   10.5.1 

[Twilk73]

13 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

You’re at a uspsa match right?   10.5.1 

No idpa. Sorry if I said USPSA. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

2 minutes ago, Twilk73 said:

No idpa. Sorry if I said USPSA. 

Oh.  I don’t know the rules as much for idpa.  But if you were at the range for a match then I would think a match official could DQ you for unsupervised gun handling or unsafe gun handling.  

[Twilk73]

9 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Oh.  I don’t know the rules as much for idpa.  But if you were at the range for a match then I would think a match official could DQ you for unsupervised gun handling or unsafe gun handling.  

That sounds like it could be a thing. I wasn’t even thinking that way because I’m a member there at that range and the bay was not one we use for competing. 

[ColoradoNick]

Kind of a grey area isn’t it? Public range before the official start time on a bay not used for the competition? My assumption would be you are following range rules at that point not uspsa. Ive actually done that quite a bit at my local indoor match.

 

Or to play devils advocate even more, I’m out at the public range practicing and I see the guys setting up for a match that I didn’t know was happening. I walk over and sign up… now I DQ myself? Lol

Edited June 7, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[ColoradoNick]

35 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

You’re at a uspsa match right?   10.5.1 

I would argue that only applies during the posted time of the match. If the match starts at 5, setup starts at 4, and you’re there from 3-4 at another bay practicing, or even 4-5 then the match rules don’t apply to you during that time. Now if you shoot a stage and then run over to an open bay before your next stage to practice dry firing you would be DQ’ed. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoNick said:

I would argue that only applies during the posted time of the match. If the match starts at 5, setup starts at 4, and you’re there from 3-4 at another bay practicing, or even 4-5 then the match rules don’t apply to you during that time. Now if you shoot a stage and then run over to an open bay before your next stage to practice dry firing you would be DQ’ed. 

I won’t get into the whole moral thing of someone who shows up during setup to practice while everyone else is working to make the match happen, but  It could be argued that since they’ve not signed in at registration yet that they’re technically not part of the match yet but that doesn’t make it any less wrong and it could also be argued that since they signed up on practiscore then when they get to the range they’re under uspsa rules.   

[nitrohuck]

I've also wondered this... I am a club member at one of the ranges that hosts matches, if I wanted to warm up on their firing-line pistol bays before hopping in my car to drive over to the USPSA berms, I'd be pissed if I were DQ'd. 

 

this is also assuming I did it BEFORE going up to the table to "sign-in" for the match. Once you're signed in, I could see that being a hardline and identifiable action that now means you are "at" the USPSA match. But before doing that, I'm another club member using my paid for membership. 

 

If you don't belong to the club, I'd think the same rules should still apply, other than the club could justifiably get mad at you for using their range without being a paying member.

Edited June 7, 2023 by nitrohuck

[MHicks]

If the match starts at 5 and setup starts at 4 I don't think it would be cool to be dryfiring on another bay at 4 while other shooters do the work of setting up. The shooting of the match may begin at 5 but it's not anything goes before that. You'd need to talk to the match director to find out what's allowed st that club.

[nitrohuck]

Just now, MHicks said:

If the match starts at 5 and setup starts at 4 I don't think it would be cool to be dryfiring on another bay at 4 while other shooters do the work of setting up. The shooting of the match may begin at 5 but it's not anything goes before that. You'd need to talk to the match director to find out what's allowed st that club.

 

While I can see your moral point of view about helping set up, it doesn't really address the "legality" question of the post. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

1 minute ago, nitrohuck said:

 

While I can see your moral point of view about helping set up, it doesn't really address the "legality" question of the post. 

I think it’s going to be up to match officials at that particular match.    

[nitrohuck]

I truly think this comes down to whether you are a member of the range, and therefore allowed to be handling firearms on their property in general. 

 

I'll stick with my thesis: if you're a member, and not yet signed in, you are not subject to the match rules. Once you sign in, no touchy the gats. If not a member, you have no right to be shooting or handling guns on the range UNTIL you're signed in for the match, in which case the point is moot bc you obviously can't start ripping rounds or handling your gun or you'll be DQ'd. 

 

Curious to hear from Match Directors and get their take 

 

 

[Joe4d]

I dont see it having anything to do with the match officials. Its to do with the club.
Entire range could be closed other than match,, so yeh maybe an issue... Also match may only have certain bays reserved with others reserved for public or club members under whatever rules they have... In that case match official has nothing to say.

The correct way to handle range nazi,  out house lawyers when they interject coulda woulda shoulda's is to agree with them, then ask them to show you that in the rule book. 

[ColoradoNick]

12 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

I think it’s going to be up to match officials at that particular match.    

I dont think match officials have any say in what happens outside of the match before someone signs in. You're potentially preventing a business from making money too. I know locally i am a member at an indoor range and I usually shoot there an hour or two before the match starts. The range closes, you sign in, and setup starts.  

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoNick said:

I dont think match officials have any say in what happens outside of the match before someone signs in. You're potentially preventing a business from making money too. I know locally i am a member at an indoor range and I usually shoot there an hour or two before the match starts. The range closes, you sign in, and setup starts.  

    Morally speaking someone should be helping instead of doing that but I’m not sure the exact answer here if they haven’t checked in yet.  I know the answer and what I would do if they had checked in with registration 

[ColoradoNick]

1 hour ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

    Morally speaking someone should be helping instead of doing that but I’m not sure the exact answer here if they haven’t checked in yet.  I know the answer and what I would do if they had checked in with registration 

I was trying to leave the morals out of it as it doesn't pertain to his question but personally you can’t shoot at the range I’m speaking of when they're setting up because there’s only two bays and they use them both. Otherwise i think we’re in agreement!

 

Morally speaking it’s personally irritating that all the old farts sit outside while the expectation is the young guys setup. Ive had two serious back injuries and have a toddler at home, my time is just as valuable. I usually help setup OR tear down but not both. Many hands make light work. Matches around here are usually full with at least 40 shooters. Especially when they're willing to pick up brass the entire match instead of focus on the match… i digress

Edited June 7, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[Twilk73]

To be clear I wasn’t signed in yet, I was signed up on practice score. I helped setup the day before so on the day of the match they only hang targets which I was not helping with. I intentionally do a lot of the heavy lifting during setup trying to put in the work. The bays assigned for the match are the only bays that are shut down all the other bays are open for club members. Id argue I’m allowed to use the bay but if I were to be signed in maybe that’s another story. 
 

Like I said I usually dry practice before leaving my house to warm up. However at practice I was sliding everywhere in the stones and wanted to get running in the stones down before the match. 

[nitrohuck]

1 minute ago, Twilk73 said:

 Like I said I usually dry practice before leaving my house to warm up. However at practice I was sliding everywhere in the stones and wanted to get running in the stones down before the match. 

 

I've literally taken up the habit of doing short sprints to warm my legs up while awaiting my turn to shoot the stage, it looks dumb, but if you want those fast twitch muscles to be ready to fire you gotta do it, especially focusing on lateral sprints out of the "shooting athletic stance". This is obviously with my gun still in the holster, or bagged. 

 

now back to the topic, where the Match Directors at?!?! 

[Twilk73]

7 minutes ago, nitrohuck said:

 

I've literally taken up the habit of doing short sprints to warm my legs up while awaiting my turn to shoot the stage, it looks dumb, but if you want those fast twitch muscles to be ready to fire you gotta do it, especially focusing on lateral sprints out of the "shooting athletic stance". This is obviously with my gun still in the holster, or bagged. 

 

now back to the topic, where the Match Directors at?!?! 

Trying to get every advantage I can. I’m there with you. 

[Boomstick303]

If you belong to the range the match is being held at and you have yet to check in for the match there is absolutely zero issue using a bay that is not part of the match to do whatever you like. As you are acting as a member of the range. I would think once you check in for the USPSA or IDPA match this would not be the case. After check in for the match you would be subjected to every aspect of the rule book. 

 

If the the only reason you are at that particular range is for a USPSA or IDPA match and you do not have a membership to that particular range I could see being Disqualified for the match if one were to use a bay. As you are not a member of the range and there for the match only. 

 

Setup etiquite is is a whole other discussion. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Boomstick303

[MHicks]

6 hours ago, nitrohuck said:

 

While I can see your moral point of view about helping set up, it doesn't really address the "legality" question of the post. 

 

That's why I said you need to talk to the match director at each club.  I've seen clubs that have a test fire bay set up and others where it is not allowed. At some clubs when you pull into the parking lot you are not allowed to handle your gun other than with it still in the case. Then only at the safe table or under direct supervision.

[konkapot]

A quarter mile from the nearest stage AND you're a member of the club? That's a no brainer. 

 

I don't think the MD would even have jurisdiction over you. 

[truespode]

10 hours ago, Twilk73 said:

To be clear I wasn’t signed in yet, I was signed up on practice score. I helped setup the day before so on the day of the match they only hang targets which I was not helping with. I intentionally do a lot of the heavy lifting during setup trying to put in the work. The bays assigned for the match are the only bays that are shut down all the other bays are open for club members. Id argue I’m allowed to use the bay but if I were to be signed in maybe that’s another story. 
 

Like I said I usually dry practice before leaving my house to warm up. However at practice I was sliding everywhere in the stones and wanted to get running in the stones down before the match. 

 

Sounds a lot like my home club when they setup for matches. They have bays that are off limits to everyone except for matches (IDPA, USPSA, Cowboy, GSSF, etc.). Anyone can shoot anywhere until they come to the competition bays and sign in but it is a cold range as soon as you get into the competition parking area. The competition bays are always off limits except on competition day. It allows for setup over the course of days and isn't so rushed.

As for the morals... I help setup with my home club and I don't really care what others do. Since you setup the day before that is great but irrelevant in my opinion. There is too much negativity and shaming of those who don't help. I've been at a point when I started where I couldn't help but could shoot for a few hours here and there. Without going to the match and meeting a lot of non-judgmental great people I think I'd have gone crazy with my personal and professional stress at the time so I am extremely grateful for the time I had to shoot. Fortunately, I am able to help more now but that is a personal decision.

 

Now... if someone isn't helping but always complaining about the stages or wanting things designed or done specifically for him/her then I do have a problem with that. If you don't help... fine. Just be happy with what you get to do and thank those that do when appropriate. 

[mmc45414]

My routine is to take off my carry gun before I pay my money.