Dry fire before match against the rules?

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

10 hours ago, ddc said:

So let me get this straight...

 

Let's say I go to a range with a match that uses 6 of the 12 available bays.

The match uses bays 1-6 while 7-12  remain available to who ever is a valid user.

 

I enter the match, I'm at the match helping set up. My buddy is over in bay 7 shooting.

After set up I go over to bay 7 to shoot the sh!t with him and check out his new blaster.

 

I pop off a couple of rounds with his new toy and then say "hey check out the gun I'm shooting today..." and I pull it out and let him try it out.

 

You are going to DQ me for that? That is ludicrous.

 

Are you or are you not under a sanctioned  ruleset at that time? 

[ddc]

2 hours ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Are you or are you not under a sanctioned  ruleset at that time? 

 

I would say you are not. You have physically removed yourself from the match.

Apparently there are those who do not agree.

 

How about this: You live next to the range and during the break between morning and afternoon sessions you walk over to your house. Are you under the ruleset at that point? Are you going to DQ me if I remove my gun from my holster and give it a quick clean and lube?

[Racinready300ex]

2 hours ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Are you or are you not under a sanctioned  ruleset at that time? 

 

I would say no. 

 

How far would you say the rules extend? Is it as far as the MD can see? So over the hill or through the woods is okay? Is it the entire property? Some ranges are pretty spread out, one club here you could be 1k yards away and still on club property no where near the pistol pits or the match. Another range comes to mind that owns the land across the street and all around it. You could be in the woods hunting them come out for the match. Is that a DQ for handling a gun on club property when you're sitting in the woods?

 

Most ranges here are private ranges and if you start telling members they can't use the range and shoot your match the match is probably going to go away. The club makes them leave one bay unused so the regular members can use the range. If I'm a regular member and you tell me I can't use the range even though you're not using it the club isn't going to like that. It'd be vary easy to get the old guard fired up about the match running members off the range. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

9 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

I would say you are not. You have physically removed yourself from the match.

Apparently there are those who do not agree.

 

How about this: You live next to the range and during the break between morning and afternoon sessions you walk over to your house. Are you under the ruleset at that point? Are you going to DQ me if I remove my gun from my holster and give it a quick clean and lube?

I would say the scenario you just provided is rather different than being signed in at a match and being on the range.    

[ddc]

Just now, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

I would say the scenario you just provided is rather different than being signed in at a match and being on the range.    

 

Very true.

I am wondering how far some would be willing to go to DQ somebody.

Some seem very eager.

Hopefully this is far beyond any reasonable boundary.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I would say no. 

 

How far would you say the rules extend? Is it as far as the MD can see? So over the hill or through the woods is okay? Is it the entire property? Some ranges are pretty spread out, one club here you could be 1k yards away and still on club property no where near the pistol pits or the match. Another range comes to mind that owns the land across the street and all around it. You could be in the woods hunting them come out for the match. Is that a DQ for handling a gun on club property when you're sitting in the woods?

 

Most ranges here are private ranges and if you start telling members they can't use the range and shoot your match the match is probably going to go away. The club makes them leave one bay unused so the regular members can use the range. If I'm a regular member and you tell me I can't use the range even though you're not using it the club isn't going to like that. It'd be vary easy to get the old guard fired up about the match running members off the range. 

Opinions can vary but the fact of the matter is you are on that range and signed in for a match and therefore under that ruleset.  

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

2 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Very true.

I am wondering how far some would be willing to go to DQ somebody.

Some seem very eager.

Hopefully this is far beyond any reasonable boundary.

I don’t want to DQ anyone.  But if someone sings in for a match and then goes and starts playing with guns and something happens then that could look bad for the club.    We have strict safety rules for a reason.  

[Twilk73]

25 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Opinions can vary but the fact of the matter is you are on that range and signed in for a match and therefore under that ruleset.  

Just to be clear I was signed up for the match online however I had not signed in yet for the match. They were there but the sign up table wasn’t even setup yet. 

[Boomstick303]

31 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

But if someone sings in for a match

 

Pretty sure almost everyone has made the distinction once you sign into the match you are under the rules of the match.  

 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

26 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Pretty sure almost everyone has made the distinction once you sign into the match you are under the rules of the match.  

 

Almost everyone yes.  But it’s obvious from some of the other comments that no the distinction hasn’t been made clear.  

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

52 minutes ago, Twilk73 said:

Just to be clear I was signed up for the match online however I had not signed in yet for the match. They were there but the sign up table wasn’t even setup yet. 

I know, I’m aware of that.  Some people have been saying however that even after signing in at the match that they can go and do whatever so long as it’s not on those competition bays.  Which just isn’t the case.    I won’t argue that there’s no foot to stand on if the person hasn’t signed in the morning of.  

[Racinready300ex]

In the times I've shot on other bays it was always early before registration is open. Or after the match is over and the bay was cleaned up. I never did it mid match, but if I was going to I'd probably just take a RO with me. Really if I'm going mid match to shoot my gun something must be wrong and a DQ probably isn't changing my match lol.

 

I think you can use a little common sense in most cases. Would I just walk around the corner to the next bay and start blasting? No that's silly. But the idea that USPSA or IDPA has complete control of the entire facility is also kind of silly too.

 

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

2 hours ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Opinions can vary but the fact of the matter is you are on that range and signed in for a match and therefore under that ruleset.  

 

And as I pointed out above under IDPA rulebook it's outside of their control and up to the range. So it's not really a opinion in that case. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

26 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

And as I pointed out above under IDPA rulebook it's outside of their control and up to the range. So it's not really a opinion in that case. 

Hot ranges just means guns can be loaded but still must be handled under the supervision of an SO.  Cold ranges with hot bays still also must be under the supervision of an SO.     I’d imagine that even under idpa rulebook of hot range that if someone just went to a bay and started blasting it would still fall under unsupervised gun handling.  

[ddc]

28 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think you can use a little common sense in most cases. Would I just walk around the corner to the next bay and start blasting? No that's silly. But the idea that USPSA or IDPA has complete control of the entire facility is also kind of silly too.

 

 

I agree.

[Racinready300ex]

17 minutes ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Hot ranges just means guns can be loaded but still must be handled under the supervision of an SO.  Cold ranges with hot bays still also must be under the supervision of an SO.     I’d imagine that even under idpa rulebook of hot range that if someone just went to a bay and started blasting it would still fall under unsupervised gun handling.  

 

Read the second part of my post. If I can drop my gun just outside of the bay with out being DQ'd because it's beyond IDPA's control then I can go shoot in another part of the facility with out being under their control. End of story. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

Just now, Racinready300ex said:

 

Read the second part of my post. If I can drop my gun just outside of the bay with out being DQ'd because it's beyond IDPA's control then I can go shoot in another part of the facility with out being under their control. End of story. 

I mean, yea.  You can definitely think that lol.    Test it out for “science” at the next match and see how it goes.   I’m curious.  

[Racinready300ex]

1 minute ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

I mean, yea.  You can definitely think that lol.    Test it out for “science” at the next match and see how it goes.   I’m curious.  

 

I've shot on other bays plenty of times at IDPA matches at a local club when I was a member. I wouldn't do it now as I'm no longer a member of the club. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

Just now, Racinready300ex said:

 

I've shot on other bays plenty of times at IDPA matches at a local club when I was a member. I wouldn't do it now as I'm no longer a member of the club. 

Okay, that doesn’t mean it’s a blanket rule for every club though.   The rules even state what idpa considers a cold and hot range.    2.11 also says “club” not range.  Therefore it’s up to the local “clubs” discretion.  Not the ranges rules* 

[Racinready300ex]

1 minute ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Okay, that doesn’t mean it’s a blanket rule for every club though.   The rules even state what idpa considers a cold and hot range.    2.11 also says “club” not range.  Therefore it’s up to the local “clubs” discretion.  Not the ranges rules* 

 

My club is a cold range at least for the IDPA match. But again, the range itself is a hot range I'm a member and I can use pistol bays that's aren't in use with out supervision. If I go sight my gun in before a match they can't really stop me. They might of been able to refuse to let me shoot the match once. But once the BOD gets involved that would end. Remember IDPA is the guest there not the membership. This club the members all own part of the club, IDPA doesn't have much say over what we do outside of their match. 

 

I'm imagining some of the clubs I've been too. Picture a match with AM and PM shooting and going and shooting a round of skeet and some RO drives by and DQ's you from the pistol match going on 500 yards away. Sorry dude you're under my rules you can't shoot anything else on this range until we're done. It's silly isn't it? But rules are rules I guess. lol

[GigG]

17 hours ago, nitrohuck said:

 

Nationals and Area matches with Vendor tents where you can try out guns, or with practice bays (without RO present) clearly violate this rule for USPSA then.  

App F

2.The Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) must clearly delineate the vendor area, and he may issue “Acceptable Practice Guidelines” to all vendors, who are responsible for their implementation in respect of their own merchandise.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

My club is a cold range at least for the IDPA match. But again, the range itself is a hot range I'm a member and I can use pistol bays that's aren't in use with out supervision. If I go sight my gun in before a match they can't really stop me. They might of been able to refuse to let me shoot the match once. But once the BOD gets involved that would end. Remember IDPA is the guest there not the membership. This club the members all own part of the club, IDPA doesn't have much say over what we do outside of their match. 

 

I'm imagining some of the clubs I've been too. Picture a match with AM and PM shooting and going and shooting a round of skeet and some RO drives by and DQ's you from the pistol match going on 500 yards away. Sorry dude you're under my rules you can't shoot anything else on this range until we're done. It's silly isn't it? But rules are rules I guess. lol

Who’s saying anything about before the match?  We’ve been talking about during and after you sign in at registration for a match.    Also your scenario at the bottom is kind of obtuse don’t you think?    If you shot the AM section then you’re done with the match.  If you’re shooting the pm section and you haven’t checked in yet then what could they do?  

[nitrohuck]

1 hour ago, GigG said:

App F

2.The Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) must clearly delineate the vendor area, and he may issue “Acceptable Practice Guidelines” to all vendors, who are responsible for their implementation in respect of their own merchandise.

 

Thanks for the clarification on that, I figured it must've been buried in a rule somewhere. 

[ddc]

3 hours ago, OpenshooterMclass4lyfe said:

Who’s saying anything about before the match?  We’ve been talking about during and after you sign in at registration for a match.    Also your scenario at the bottom is kind of obtuse don’t you think?    If you shot the AM section then you’re done with the match.  If you’re shooting the pm section and you haven’t checked in yet then what could they do?  

 

all this talk about "checking in and/or signing in at registration" being a criteria ... at the matches I shoot the majority sign up and pay on Practiscore. 

When you get to the match there is no check in except for those who didn't sign up on line.

When you get to the match you help set up and shoot.

 

Given that scenario... when did I "check in"? When Practiscore sends me a confirmation? When I drive through the gate?

 

There is a huge gray area here and some are wanting to make it black and white. It's just not.

 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

19 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

all this talk about "checking in and/or signing in at registration" being a criteria ... at the matches I shoot the majority sign up and pay on Practiscore. 

When you get to the match there is no check in except for those who didn't sign up on line.

When you get to the match you help set up and shoot.

 

Given that scenario... when did I "check in"? When Practiscore sends me a confirmation? When I drive through the gate?

 

There is a huge gray area here and some are wanting to make it black and white. It's just not.

 

There’s no Checkin before the match?   So how does the person handling the tablets know how to balance out the squads?  How does he know who to delete because someone didn’t show up?