Limited optics strong early showing

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

It a division for the sponsors, not for the shooter. 

 

 

Well since production guns cost less than custom built 40s, and 9 mm cost less than 40, and 9 mm is easier on the gun than 40, I'd say it's a division built around the shooters

 

 

[mikeg1005]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

 

 

Well since production guns cost less than custom built 40s, and 9 mm cost less than 40, and 9 mm is easier on the gun than 40, I'd say it's a division built around the shooters

 

 

 

Has nothing to do with 40 or custom built guns.  Has to do with double stack 1911s in 9mm.  That is the only reason the division was created.  CO was built around the shooter... this division is not.  

[BritinUSA]

CO was built around revenue. 

[mikeg1005]

2 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

CO was built around revenue. 

 

Touche.

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

Has nothing to do with 40 or custom built guns.  Has to do with double stack 1911s in 9mm.  That is the only reason the division was created.  CO was built around the shooter... this division is not.  

 

 Most people like to shoot double stack 1911, most people like cheap ammo, most people like guns that last a long time, most people like dots, most people like magwells, most people enjoy not picking up brass. This division seems to be built around a shooter more than any other division there is

 

 

 

Line up a double stack 1911 in 9 mm against every other gun in the world, and most shooters are going to prefer the shootbility and ergos of the double stack 1911. It's not rocket surgery it's just common sense and giving competitors what they actually want

[mikeg1005]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

 Most people like to shoot double stack 1911, most people like cheap ammo, most people like guns that last a long time, most people like dots, most people like magwells, most people enjoy not picking up brass. This division seems to be built around a shooter more than any other division there is

 

 

 

Line up a double stack 1911 in 9 mm against every other gun in the world, and most shooters are going to prefer the shootbility and ergos of the double stack 1911. It's not rocket surgery it's just common sense and giving competitors what they actually want

 

We have a division for all that fun stuff.. its called open.  

[RJH]

Just now, mikeg1005 said:

 

We have a division for all that fun stuff.. its called open.  

 

Yeah, same thing they said when people wanted to start shooting carry-ops. It was wrong then and it's still wrong now. But you know that, you're just upset about something, I'm just not sure what that something is

[Racinready300ex]

Oops

Edited July 14, 2023 by Racinready300ex

[mikeg1005]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

 

Yeah, same thing they said when people wanted to start shooting carry-ops. It was wrong then and it's still wrong now. But you know that, you're just upset about something, I'm just not sure what that something is

 

I don't think you can quite compare LO to CO though.  CO was a new concept that allowed people to have the fun of open without having to do all the open bulls#!t.  LO is just allowing single actions and could easily be absorbed into CO without any significant changes in whose going to win/with what guns.  

 

Not upset... just pointing out the reality that LO talk started about the same time Staccato go re-interested in USPSA and Springfield created a double stack 1911.

[Racinready300ex]

26 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

Me too because I want to see the butthurt of everyone with a 9mm gun now cry that they need to get a 40cal.

 

They won't do it because Springfield, STI, etc. are geared towards 9mm 2011 type pistols not 40cal and not 9 major. 

It a division for the sponsors, not for the shooter. 

 

Yeemin was just on a podcast I was listening too say many gun builders will only build a 40 by request. And that those that sell 40's the sales are in the low single digits. It does seem silly given so few people are going out to looking to buy 40's these days for us to start a new division built around that caliber. It'll be destined to fail, in which case why do it at all?

[Maximis228]

@mikeg1005 Likes limited so much that when he was invited to the Limited WS team, he said f*#k you and went fishing. Even USPSAs best limited shooters dont care about Limited. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Maximis228

[RJH]

Just now, mikeg1005 said:

 

I don't think you can quite compare LO to CO though.  CO was a new concept that allowed people to have the fun of open without having to do all the open bulls#!t.  LO is just allowing single actions and could easily be absorbed into CO without any significant changes in whose going to win/with what guns.  

 

Not upset... just pointing out the reality that LO talk started about the same time Staccato go re-interested in USPSA and Springfield created a double stack 1911.

 

 

I would have had no issue with them allowing Sao guns in carry-ops, I understand why they didn't do that though since carryops is the largest division there is and they probably didn't want to do anything to directly screw that up. Whether it would actually screw it up or just be a perceived screw it up is something I'm not worried about discussing

 

 

That said, with staccato, Springfield, sig, Beretta, probably several other production gun companies, along with semi custom guns, and full custom gun companies all making Sao optics ready 9 mm guns and selling them at a high rate, it seems silly for USPSA to look past that market.

 

So they decided to create limited optics which is the best division going right now, and will be one of the two largest divisions within a year or two

[mikeg1005]

4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yeemin was just on a podcast I was listening too say many gun builders will only build a 40 by request. And that those that sell 40's the sales are in the low single digits. It does seem silly given so few people are going out to looking to buy 40's these days for us to start a new division built around that caliber. It'll be destined to fail, in which case why do it at all?

 

He is 100% correct, it will stay minor.  HQs main goal is to generate revenue and keeping it 9mm will appease sponsors and keep people shooting LO. 

 

1 minute ago, Maximis228 said:

@mikeg1005 Likes limited so much that when he was invited to the Limited WS team, he said f*#k you and went fishing. Even USPSAs best limited shooters dont care about Limited. 

 

shhhhhhhhhhh....

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yeemin was just on a podcast I was listening too say many gun builders will only build a 40 by request. And that those that sell 40's the sales are in the low single digits. It does seem silly given so few people are going out to looking to buy 40's these days for us to start a new division built around that caliber. It'll be destined to fail, in which case why do it at all?

 

This, 100% this

[mikeg1005]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

So they decided to create limited optics which is the best division going right now, and will be one of the two largest divisions within a year or two

 

I have a feeling you'll see LO poach CO shooters by a large margin.  CO guns with magwells, etc.  is going to be appealing to a lot of people. 

[RJH]

1 minute ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

I have a feeling you'll see LO poach CO shooters by a large margin.  CO guns with magwells, etc.  is going to be appealing to a lot of people. 

 

I think you're right. I think a lot of them will just go ahead and buy 2011 as well since that's what they really wanted in the first place, but were forced to shoot s***** guns to get the advantage of capacity, a DOT, and low cost ammo

[2011BLDR]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:41 PM, 2011BLDR said:

State championship coming in Sep

Updated

[RJH]

25 minutes ago, 2011BLDR said:

Updated

 

Well that escalated quickly

[GunBugBit]

I’m 64 and still feel like my eyes don’t need an electronic optic.  My days of that are numbered so when I want to compete in the reindeer games with an optic, I’ll most like go with a race gun over a limited optic or carry optic.

[RJH]

The more I shoot LO, the more I like it.  USPSA got it right IMO

[Climbhard]

My whole problem with where things are going is this sport is (or was) based on three fundementals.  DVC.  Accuracy, Power, Speed.   However, power is now gone.  There is no skill required to manage recoil of 130pf ammo in a 50+ oz gun.  Recoil control, managing the gun at speed, is an acquired skill developed from extended training.  Its now just became a game of accuracy and speed.  Its dumbed down.  Marginalized.  its like the tick tock of shooting.  If your 23 and can run fast and are good at video games (putting the dot on target) you'll do well.  Your grip can be ****, fundementals ****, but with a 53 oz gun shooting bunny farts you'll do well.  Yes, Im just a bitter old man shooting Ltd major.  

[truespode]

51 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

Yes, Im just a bitter old man shooting Ltd major.  

 

But you are not wrong.

 

I'm saying that as someone who loves hicap and red dot. It's a hobby and I don't work hard at it but in it's current form it is a lot of fun for me. 

 

You're still not wrong. 

[Boomstick303]

12 hours ago, Climbhard said:

However, power is now gone.

 

Power is not gone.  You can still shoot many divisions that include power as part of the equation.  

 

For anyone that thinks that recoil control is not a part of the minor game you would be incorrect.  Does a 9mm require as much recoil control as shooting a Limited gun.  Nope, but if your grip is not on point in most minor divisions you will get your ass kicked as Alphas are required to compete.  

 

On could also argue where is the recoil management when shooting Open which is mostly a Major division?  Yes the power is there, but is one not just addressing recoil management by throwing money at it?

 

I think the turn off in Limited is the caliber itself.   Not necessarily the fact that it is major.  In my eyes few people joining the sport could care less about shooting that caliber.  

 

I also think you are partly correct in that we do live in a Microwave society where learning the many nuances of shooting Irons takes way too long for many to care to learn.  If I was younger when I started USPSA I would have wanted to shoot Limited, but I did not start shooting until I turned 46.  My eye sight was already deteriorating, and I took a class and realized to get near the top of the game using Irons was not really an option.   Hell the homework alone to get the right shooting glasses could take an extraordinary amount of time and money.  

 

12 hours ago, Climbhard said:

Yes, Im just a bitter old man shooting Ltd major. 

 

Shooting Major has nothing to do with being a bitter old man, as I do not shoot Major and I too am a bitter old man......

 

[MHicks]

I'm 70 and love shooting major in SS 45 and Limited with 40. But my next match will be in LO first time shooting an optic in a match. Giving it a try to see how I like it while knowing it will take a while to get used to it. I have recently shot the gun with my 9mm upper in Limited before getting the optic set up just to check out shooting minor in it. CZ Tac Sport. If SS was much more popular I would probably just stick with that and Limited but I am curious about using the optic.

[shred]

One more time... "the V in DVC is not about recoil, it's about power on target and always has been.."