Mighty Armory Saami Spec Pistol Dies

[Orlandoech]

11 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

I truly do not understand the negative attitudes associated with the "coke bottle" shape.

 

There are no functional negatives and it is actually a good thing as it opposes bullet setback.

 

If it were truly needed and warranted, all Dies would do it, including factory loaded ammo. Its not needed at all and causes worse SDs.

[ddc]

5 hours ago, Orlandoech said:

 

If it were truly needed and warranted, all Dies would do it, including factory loaded ammo. Its not needed at all and causes worse SDs.

 

In your humble opinion.

 

The 9mm coke bottle is a function of how "tightly" a case is sized and the fact that the case has a slight taper. "Tightly" meaning what the finished diameter of the case is after sizing.

The smaller the diameter; i.e. as from a Lee undersized die, the more obvious the effect will be.

 

I wouldn't want a 9mm round without at least a hint of "coke bottle".

 

My ammo has single digit SD and single digit spread. 

 

And if you check factory ammo it is not uncommon to see the "coke bottle" there also.

Again, it is much ado about nothing.

Edited September 30, 2022 by ddc

[bdpaz]

11 hours ago, Orlandoech said:

 

 …and causes worse SDs.

I don’t recall seeing this in any of the previous “coke bottle” threads. Can you provide some data to back up this statement?

[Orlandoech]

9 hours ago, bdpaz said:

I don’t recall seeing this in any of the previous “coke bottle” threads. Can you provide some data to back up this statement?

my data means nothing. Collect your own data and figure it out. It’s a simple experiment with new or once fired brass. 

[HOGRIDER]

I'm using the Redding Competition Pro Titanium Carbide sizing die which definitely produces the "coke bottle" effect since it sizes ~-.002" smaller than standard.

 

Never have a round that doesn't pass the precision gauge.

 

And as @ddc stated, I've got the results to back it up:

 

Spread: 13

SD:  4

 

[boatdoc173]

one of the  reasons that  I tried the MA sizing  die is the  depriming pin system.  I  do like my dillon and redding  dies  however  it is a huge PIA to have to pull depriming pins out of cases when they are stuck. . and then you have to reinstall the pin...and it happens again. and again.  I know it is caused by the cases with an undersized hole.

 

 this  depriming pin is  screwed in and Wayne also state s  on the site that it has  an upgrade the quality of material too.

 

[boatdoc173]

can someone please explain to me how this die would cause an issue that my redding  die did not. This is a sizing die, next step is expanding the neck, powder charge placed, bullet  seated then crimped.

 

 not sure where danger  comes in if the only change is the complete sizing of a case.

 

perhaps  rick or wayne  could add some info , or those  who use these dies might chime in about experience?

[rooster]

The decamping pin can be shaped to minimize the sticking problem. When I tried the MA die I had neck tension issues. Bullets would literally fall into the case. I tried everything I new how to do. I have been reloading for 30 years and never had this problem. I tried reducing, adding bell, adding more crimp, different brass, different powder droppers, different crimp dies, Lee FCD die. When I went back to my Redding sizing die all problems went away and I was back to normal, so I know it was the die. In fairness I received a full refund. Not sure why others have better luck, but I would check bullet setback religiously. I was using jacketed bullets at the time with a od of .355, so using coated with the extra .001 might help the issue I had. 

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, boatdoc173 said:

one of the  reasons that  I tried the MA sizing  die is the  depriming pin system.  I  do like my dillon and redding  dies  however  it is a huge PIA to have to pull depriming pins out of cases when they are stuck. . and then you have to reinstall the pin...and it happens again. and again.  I know it is caused by the cases with an undersized hole.

 

Had the same issue with my Redding sizing die on occasion..........

 

A friend in Redding engineering had me try these, and zero stuck pins in any case since then.  And they definitely are hardened items!

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012974329

 

 

[boatdoc173]

thanks @HOGRIDER

 

redding  suggested a place that actually had them in stock a while back( NO ONE seemed to have them back then) had to buy  quite a few to meet minimum order though.

 

I like the fact that Redding CS  is always there to help.

 

Wayne seems to understand that as well.  great personalized CS so far.

Edited October 2, 2022 by boatdoc173

[HOGRIDER]

@boatdoc173

 

[boatdoc173]

after  reading about these neck tension issues. I tried  the MA die with my existing Redding pro set up---zero issues. no  neck tension issues. nice straight  cases.

 

looking forward to reloading season( once the humidity is gone for  the fall)

[RGA]

I'm happy with the MA decapper dies I have but sadly cannot say the same about the 9mm and 223 FL dies I purchased a couple of years ago. Issue was not insufficicient neck tension but they scratched my brass severly due to insufficient hardening. I assume that issue has been addressed in the mean time.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by RGA

[Sigarmsp226]

I am going to order one of these dies from Wayne at MA - not because this issue causes me undue stress  but rather to play with it to see how reloaded ammo looks and functions.  For me I see this in a slightly different light - I do not consider the coke bottle or wasp waist reloaded case as an issue so long as the rounds will “pluck” and pass my case gauges.

 

 Wayne is a shooter, a reloader, an engineer that wants to create solutions to “concerns/issues” (I did not say problems) that some reloaders have, and a contributing member of this forum who is truly trying to provide a product to support a topic (problem for some but not me) to address the issue that “some” have with the visual aspect of their reloaded 9mm ammo.

 

As this die may not be needed or wanted by everyone - it is obvious that Wayne has developed this die design to “scratch this itch” that many 9mm reloaders tend to “worry about”……

 

I do not know Wayne nor do I have any affiliation with his company but I will say this - KUDOS to Wayne and Mighty Armory for developing a die that will help “some” reloaders related to their visual OCD concerns of loading ammo that reflect this look. There is no reason to be hating on Wayne or MA for developing this die. 

Order one or not - it is really that simple. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Sigarmsp226
Spelling

[Sc0]

For what it's worth:

 

Have a 6mm ARC Mighty Armory die that had a burr inside, might have ruined a few Lapua cases until it was discovered and polished out.  Never had burrs in: Lee, Redding, Forster, RCBS, Dillon, or Hornady dies. 

[boatdoc173]

the deciding factor for me  was the way Wayne designed the decap pin and how it is  screwed into the decap pin shaft  rather  than just inserted.

 

I  do not see much different in my cases( for now anyway) between my  redding pro series decap/size die and the MA die. However the  biggest issue I had with the redding and even my dillon decap/size die  was the  decap pin getting stuck over and over in the  case. the MA decap system should fix that time eater.

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, boatdoc173 said:

However the  biggest issue I had with the redding and even my dillon decap/size die  was the  decap pin getting stuck over and over in the  case. the MA decap system should fix that time eater.

 

From Redding's FAQ:

Quote

Question:  Does Redding manufacture a Decapping Pin for use with small Flash Holes?

Answer:  Yes, These small pins (part number 01059) are available from most Redding Dealers. 

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012974329

 

[boatdoc173]

they helped @ hogrider.   redding CS( tops for sure)  found a dealer withthem in stock.  there is always 1 0r 2 cases with a hole just small enough to pull the pin-- grateful that these pins made this a RARE  thing  vs what I had  before.

 

thanks for the info 

Edited October 15, 2022 by boatdoc173

[HOGRIDER]

10 hours ago, boatdoc173 said:

they helped @ hogrider.   redding CS( tops for sure)  found a dealer withthem in stock.  there is always 1 0r 2 cases with a hole just small enough to pull the pin-- grateful that these pins made this a RARE  thing  vs what I had  before.

 

thanks for the info 

[brian45acp]

On 10/2/2022 at 6:35 AM, rooster said:

The decamping pin can be shaped to minimize the sticking problem. When I tried the MA die I had neck tension issues. Bullets would literally fall into the case. I tried everything I new how to do. I have been reloading for 30 years and never had this problem. I tried reducing, adding bell, adding more crimp, different brass, different powder droppers, different crimp dies, Lee FCD die. When I went back to my Redding sizing die all problems went away and I was back to normal, so I know it was the die. In fairness I received a full refund. Not sure why others have better luck, but I would check bullet setback religiously. I was using jacketed bullets at the time with a od of .355, so using coated with the extra .001 might help the issue I had. 

 

I had the same experience. Wayne is super cool and currently working on dies for range brass. I don’t know if I want to try it all over again but apparently the crap range brass we find springs back after sizing and loses bullet tension. Seems this is taken care of by most all other dies sizing .001-.002 under to account for variables. 
 

My concern is buying a die set for range brass that is not ideal but what happens with good brass in the same dies?

 

I thought I was going nuts too and could push my Montana golds into the case in the palm of my hand. So I also don’t understand how others aren’t having the same issue. Wayne said it was just a handful of us with this problem and it’s a brass issue.

Edited November 6, 2022 by brian45acp

[ddc]

3 hours ago, brian45acp said:

 

I had the same experience. Wayne is super cool and currently working on dies for range brass. I don’t know if I want to try it all over again but apparently the crap range brass we find springs back after sizing and loses bullet tension. Seems this is taken care of by most all other dies sizing .001-.002 under to account for variables. 
 

My concern is buying a die set for range brass that is not ideal but what happens with good brass in the same dies?

 

I thought I was going nuts too and could push my Montana golds into the case in the palm of my hand. So I also don’t understand how others aren’t having the same issue. Wayne said it was just a handful of us with this problem and it’s a brass issue.

 

What would his dies be intended for if not for "range" brass?

 

I would guess the majority of people on this forum are reloading "range" brass.

 

Why are the people who are having trouble with his dies going back to their established dies (Redding, Lee, Dillon, etc. )and finding the problem goes away?

 

Why would anybody want to buy a die which only works on a small subset of available brass?

[Nolan]

33 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

What would his dies be intended for if not for "range" brass?

 

I would guess the majority of people on this forum are reloading "range" brass.

 

Why are the people who are having trouble with his dies going back to their established dies (Redding, Lee, Dillon, etc. )and finding the problem goes away?

 

Why would anybody want to buy a die which only works on a small subset of available brass?

 

Not everybody shoots a sport where MOPP (Minute of Pie Pan) is acceptable accuracy.  Bullseye and those weird guys that shoot Bianchi go to the trouble of shooting OTRB (Other Than Range Brass) to load very accurate, consistent ammo.  Then there are the guys like me, that are picky about their ammo and only MOBBP (Minute of Bread & Butter Plate) is acceptable.

 

Nolan

[brian45acp]

38 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

What would his dies be intended for if not for "range" brass?

 

I would guess the majority of people on this forum are reloading "range" brass.

 

Why are the people who are having trouble with his dies going back to their established dies (Redding, Lee, Dillon, etc. )and finding the problem goes away?

 

Why would anybody want to buy a die which only works on a small subset of available brass?

I agree with all that you said. I don’t want to talk crap about a small company though. The service and dedication to perfecting the product can’t be beat.

 

my Lyman pro dies I had issues with the taper die and all I get is tech support listening to what’s wrong but zero help or change to fix it. 
 

But you are correct and we all use range brass but the concern is the quality of that brass has changed because of the ammo shortages. We had odd ball brands out there now that aren’t created equal.

 

MA dies aim to produce box quality ammo at saami spec. All other dies use carbide rings to take a taper case and straight wall undersize it. This is why we get the bullet bulge or coke bottle shape. I’m leaning toward the undersize technique accounting for a wider variable for mixed brass but MA is trying to perfect a die that produces rounds with no bulge.

 

All I know is I too was frustrated trying to deal with this and have since gone back to Dillon after trying MA and Lyman Pro. I don’t think we can beat Dillon dies in Dillon presses.

[jaep1911]

I wish I had read this thread before I bought a Decapping and Resizing Die from MA. I just want to add my experience to this thread.

 

I was getting tired of the ‘extra force’ required with the U-Die (yes, I do use a lube) and not-so-ideal decapping pin design with the Dillon die. I was intrigued by MA’s decapping pin design (screw-on with spring) and decided to give it a shot.

 

Because of its ‘non-undersizing design’, I was curious/ cautious about the bullet retention, so I made a few with coated bullets (0.356) and plated bullets (0.355). I could not push the coated bullets in but it was effortless to push the plated bullet in with a light force, even after crimping (my crimping is adjusted for the coated bullet with the case mouth just closed).

 

No go. I am afraid that they will not take it back for refund. I am not going to sell it because of the bullet setback that I have observed with it. I would have to take the loss.

 

Back to the U-Die. 

[rooster]

I had to do some haggling but in the end I was refunded my purchase.