Jump to content

Old vs new 2011 - opinions


Recommended Posts

Had a chance to buy a used 2011 from 2013. Made by Shay Akai. 

 

Has there been any major advancements in limited guns that would hinder a b-class shooter for his first limited gun? 

 

I almost bought a $4,700 limcat And I just couldn't pull the trigger on it. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

most new guns have a steel grip, which most people find to be an improvement for most situations. Other than that, I would recommend saving some $$ as long as the gun is reliable, while you figure everything out. After a year or two you may well be ok with spending $4k for a gun, and if you want to go full custom, you'll have a better idea of what features you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

most new guns have a steel grip, which most people find to be an improvement for most situations. Other than that, I would recommend saving some $$ as long as the gun is reliable, while you figure everything out. After a year or two you may well be ok with spending $4k for a gun, and if you want to go full custom, you'll have a better idea of what features you want.

Thanks. This was my feelings exactly. 

 

Wait till I know what to spend my money on. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, moebravo said:

Thanks. This was my feelings exactly. 

 

Wait till I know what to spend my money on. 

 

 

Ok, I’ll actually try to make a productive post, rather than my previous snarky one.
 

You won’t go wrong with the approach of going with a used gun first and getting accustomed to the 2011 platform. Then you can keep that gun as your back-up and buy a newer one later, and be better educated about what you might do different in the second gun.

 

That said, I have known a couple people (myself included) that have gone cheaper to begin with, and then spent more money later upgrading. This is compared to friends that have spent more up front, and ended up with a smaller, but ultimately more refined collection that I envy.

 

So either way I think you’ll be fine. But if you really want the Limcat, I don’t think you’ll regret it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As J-Allen said, the approach of buying an old used gun to start with isn't bad idea if you've never run the 2011 platform before. 

My $0.02 though is this is a buy once cry once sport. I'd say save your coin and buy the best gun you can. Better to have the best thing possible and learn on it, than learn on an old/cheaper gun and end up buying the best gun later anyway. Depending on the previous owner you might have a pretty bad experience starting off too (replacing parts etc...). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Baynewrady said:

As J-Allen said, the approach of buying an old used gun to start with isn't bad idea if you've never run the 2011 platform before. 

My $0.02 though is this is a buy once cry once sport. I'd say save your coin and buy the best gun you can. Better to have the best thing possible and learn on it, than learn on an old/cheaper gun and end up buying the best gun later anyway. Depending on the previous owner you might have a pretty bad experience starting off too (replacing parts etc...). 

Thank you. 

 

I think I was just trying to determine about technology and advancements. 

 

From what I can tell, if I buy a steel grip and a barrel with a sight block on it. Then I'm right up there with the new guys as far as advancements. I could even mill the side for an optic or lever and have the frame tapped for a mount and make it an open gun. 

 

I guess at the end of the day it's like a high end 1911 vs a custom 1911 from 30 years ago. If the person took their time building the thing, there's nothing earth shattering that I wouldn't be able to have done to this frame should I choose to. 

 

I guess it's like the Atlas Rev 1 vs rev 2 didn't all of a sudden suck because they put a new version out. 

 

Is the cost delta worth the difference wear and maintenance out of the equation? 

 

Another comparison is a 90s sw revolver vs a 2010 revolver. I know they're production guns with minor variations like MIM parts and firing pin location but if you shot both at the same time would you be able to tell the difference? 

 

Sorry for the long winded response. 

 

Edited by moebravo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, moebravo said:

Thank you. 

 

I think I was just trying to determine about technology and advancements. 

 

From what I can tell, if I buy a steel grip and a barrel with a sight block on it. Then I'm right up there with the new guys as far as advancements. I could even mill the side for an optic or lever and have the frame tapped for a mount and make it an open gun. 

 

I guess at the end of the day it's like a high end 1911 vs a custom 1911 from 30 years ago. If the person took their time building the thing, there's nothing earth shattering that I wouldn't be able to have done to this frame should I choose to. 

 

I guess it's like the Atlas Rev 1 vs rev 2 didn't all of a sudden suck because they put a new version out. 

 

Is the cost delta worth the difference wear and maintenance out of the equation? 

 

Another comparison is a 90s sw revolver vs a 2010 revolver. I know they're production guns with minor variations like MIM parts and firing pin location but if you shot both at the same time would you be able to tell the difference? 

 

Sorry for the long winded response. 

 

 

 

 

Outside of 6 inch and full dust covers. 

I'd need to know more about the 2 guns you are looking at to give a more educated opinion. Generally speaking not much has changed since 2013 as far as technology goes, at least that I know of. SVI came out with hybrid/island barrels and sight blocks became a thing as well. Both achieve the same result (more weight on muzzle end to help reduce muzzle flip). The only other things that you could do is get a slide racker, and frame drilled/tapped for a thumb rest both of which could be done by a good gunsmith. You could also get a cut for an optic if you want to go to open, but then you wouldn't want a .40 S&W barrel.

 

Your analogy of high end 1911's vs custom 1911's is pretty spot on. Ultimately what you'll be paying for is slide/frame fit, barrel fitment, and trigger. Parts can be put together/fit by any gunsmith, it's how tight the fitment is done that ends up costing more coin. Whether that's worth it to you is a question only you can answer. From a technical standpoint, there are accuracy gains to be had from tight fitment (particularly barrel lockup), but unless you're a GM chances are you won't be able to truly tell (most of us can't outshoot our guns). 

 

As far as whether you could tell the difference between the two if shot at the same time, I would say absolutely yes. I've shot an STI edge alongside an Atlas alongside an SVI, and maybe it's the "mysticism" behind it, but the SVI did feel better. As far as performance, I am not at a skill level where I could truly perceive noticeable differences between the Atlas and SVI, but the Edge did require a bit more attention to return to zero. I'll add a caveat to this though and reiterate that ultimately most of us cannot outshoot our guns. "Performance is in the swordsmen, not the sword", that kind of thing.

 

My suggestion would be to avoid a used racegun, as chances are it's on its last legs, or at the very least you'll be needing to replace parts soon (think about how we use them in sport and why we might want to sell them to an unsuspecting buyer). Unless of course you know the previous owner or can handle the item prior to purchasing. If you decide to go the used racegun route, I'd say peruse the Classifieds on this forum, I've seen plenty of really great deals on some fine pistols when I've looked. Also considering sellers are fellow sportsmen, I'm more inclined to believe that the items are aptly cared for.

 

Final 2 cents, keep in mind that Bob Vogel has won multiple Limited titles using a Glock 35, Mason Lane has won a couple Limited titles with a Sig P320. Skill and familiarity with your gun will get you further than relying on a great gun alone. Having said that, I have an SVI and absolutely love it, and have never regretted losing the kidney it cost me for it :). Ultimately it's just a question of whether or not you want a beautiful/great gun, and whether you're willing to pay for it. If you're strictly looking for performance gains, I'd say buy more ammo/training. Sincerely hope this helps

Link to comment
Share on other sites

moe, a couple of things.  Akai makes good guns.  As long as it is not worn badly and the price is right, it is a good buy.

 

The notion that the amount of money spent on a new gun determines how good it is, is daft.  I'll not name names, but the $3500 semi-custom gun from one firm is exactly as good and well fit as a $5500 gun from another.  Quality of fit and parts used determines whether or not it is a 'good' gun, not price paid.

 

If the Akai has a poly grip, you may not be able to use a steel grip without fitting.  In some cases that could mean eight hours with a file and stones.

 

A sight block barrel is a fad, not a necessity.

 

.Turning the Akai into an Open gun is doable with a barrel change and some slide modification.  I did just that for my second Open gun.  40 Open is much more forgiving that 9mm major.  You fit three fewer rounds in a mag.  No big deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, zzt said:

moe, a couple of things.  Akai makes good guns.  As long as it is not worn badly and the price is right, it is a good buy.

 

The notion that the amount of money spent on a new gun determines how good it is, is daft.  I'll not name names, but the $3500 semi-custom gun from one firm is exactly as good and well fit as a $5500 gun from another.  Quality of fit and parts used determines whether or not it is a 'good' gun, not price paid.

 

If the Akai has a poly grip, you may not be able to use a steel grip without fitting.  In some cases that could mean eight hours with a file and stones.

 

A sight block barrel is a fad, not a necessity.

 

.Turning the Akai into an Open gun is doable with a barrel change and some slide modification.  I did just that for my second Open gun.  40 Open is much more forgiving that 9mm major.  You fit three fewer rounds in a mag.  No big deal.

Thank you so much. This was great information.

 

I figured the comparison between the 3500 and 5500 guns both being quality guns was valid. That doesn't say that buying the best gun that you can isn't another good methodology or even practical methodology. They just hate buying something at the top of the market if I don't know I'm going to love it. It always makes it harder to get what you got into it out of it. 

 

When I first saw site block and hybrid barrels I thought they were the cat's meow but in doing more research I realized that some people enjoy them and some people don't. Which leads me to believe that it really comes down to your preference and the practice you put into your craft. 

 

I was unaware that if a polygrip came on the firearm it would be difficult to put a steel grip. I was coming from a steel master which had a polygrip so I don't know if I would notice the difference immediately. 

 

Hey also understand the differences between the 9mm major and the 40 caliber. Was just referencing that the caliber doesn't change the work that could be done on the gun like the comparison to the 1911s that I made.

 

Thanks so much for the insight. I really appreciate it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Silverscooby27 said:

The used/older 2022 will also make a great backup gun when you decide to buy a new one.

 

Probably not.  Having used a backup that was different from the main gun, I can say it is not a good idea.  At a LIII match I had to switch.  My main and backup guns were as different as it is possible to be.  I played find the dot for the next two or three stages.  It was frustrating.

 

Now my main and backup Open guns are identical in weight, feel, balance and sights.  I can switch back and forth without adjustment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Limited has really changed much. Some of the guns look nicer for sure. Sight trackers are more common but I don't think that's really needed. The only thing you're really giving up is the metal grip. Really you can add a 10 oz steel magwell and a steel MSH and your weight will probably be right in line with a steel grip and you'll only spend like $200 on parts. 

 

A bigger change is mags. Back in the day you had to tune STI mags, now you can buy MBX or Atlas and they'll probably run right out of the box. In Open I think the biggest change again might be steel grips and dumping the big old C-mores that covered the ejection port. It's so much easier to make one work with a smaller more modern optic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ill add this.. thank God for a new limited shooter. I feel surrounded by dot shooters these days.

Ive got a two 2011s.. One Atlas Nemesis I picked up with sub 10K rounds from a good friend i trusted.. heavy as hell. and an a old 6" lighten tommy guns - bushing barrel gun. stupid light and pointy. Both are fantasic, and each I love having the choice of which to take. If the match is a heavy hoser, the nemesis gets the nod. If lots of long partials and big transitions the lighter 6" gets the nod. 

Old vs new? Ide say get one that works well, from some one you trust, that has most of the bugs worked out...ideally where your trigger finger / trigger is well fit, and your thumb can reach the mag release w/o breaking your grip.

Also you will need a gun smith or two for fitting parts. local.

and the MBX mag thing is a myth.  2011 gun/mag thing is very finicky.   Fine a set the works best and keep your mags tuned and freshly sprung.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at Brazos.  I do not have one. I shot with Bob at Area 4 Championship one year.  He is a gentleman and all around good guy.  HIs guns work well.  I knew some of his sponsored shooters and their guns worked well.

He has a new line of guns which is a great way to have a very competitive gun right off the bat.

 

I started with building my own STI.  I had Kodiak Precision complete the build and was very happy with it.  I sold it to a friend who after a year or so sold it to another friend.  The gun ran great.

 

That said, I have 5 SVIs.  I was addicted to them.  Heck, I have a .22 conversion dedicated to an SV frame. So that is my bias.

 

I tend to stay away from used guns, especially if I do not know the owner.  I am very risk adverse.

Bob does a great job as does Akai, Bedell, and a few others. 

I would not buy a used gun from anyone but them if I was ever so inclined.

 

Buyer Beware. Do you due diligence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I wanted to try Open, found a used SVI Infinity in 38 super on the opposite coast. Called SVI to check mfr date based on its serial number. They say the gun was made in 2000, and sold as frame only. Store photos look ok, not too much finish wear except for a few deep scratches under the comp. No mags come with it. If the paperwork goes through as usual, the gun should be here in about a month. Besides mags/holster/brass, what should I be looking for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A person is selling it or a store? If a person Google his match background; a top 10 GM (for example) typically shoots more and typically maintains his gear better. 

 

Check his presence (if any) on this forum. Someone constantly posting about problems or his home gunsmithing is probably not someone I want to buy a gun from. 

 

If a 20 year old Infinity is being sold buy a store/dealer, I'd probably pass. It might be from an estate sale, or it might be a worn out piece of garbage. 

 

If you're already committed to buying it.....tread carefully. Full disassembly, thorough cleaning, and probably a drop off at a good gunsmith for a once over. When Open guns go bad, there's a lot of associated problems. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gun was sold by a store. Might be an estate sale or someone retiring, IDK.

 

They have/had an unfired STI 100th Anniversary set listed, STI 2011 GM Open - looked very clean, someone bought it last week for CAD$3500, and this SVI for CAD$2500. And quite a collection of old guns: several C96 Mausers and other pre-WW2 goodies.

 

Canadian gov't will no longer issue import permits for pistols starting tomorrow, and there's a new bill coming up to prohibit pistol sales, but not an outright ownership ban (yet). Lots of last minute panic buying on one end, and on the other end there are people who liquidate their collections to free up cash while they can.

 

 

SVI.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Used is used.. You take your chances. Example I bought a well used Dillon 1050. I saw it run and saved a lot. After getting it I found several things that needed improvement and replacement. In the end I spent $3000 total on a machine I could have bought new for $2000. It works great now for only 50% more.

 

I bought a beautiful (to look at) custom 2011 open gun for substantially less than new and immediate availability when builders were quoting long lead times. It still was expensive. Two months later the gun locked up due to a cracked slide. I do not know whether the slide was cracked when I bought it or not but it doesn't matter because the cost plus a new slide exceeded the cost of the same gun new. 

 

Buying someone else's used crap doesn't work for me anymore. No one intentionally cheated me in either case. Both sellers are still distant friends that I did not know prior to the transaction. I don't believe either misled me deliberately but buying someone else's used stuff is no longer on my list of acceptable alternatives.

 

Get the best new gun you afford and have fun.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently was buying my first metal frame “race gun”   
I ended up seting my sites on a tanfoglio  set up for Carry optics

 

that being said I wound up having a few good used options both on this website and off. But I want up spending a little bit more money and getting a brand new one freshly built. These guns were new to me and I didn’t want to buy something with problems and not know how to fix it

 

Granted it only cost me a couple hundred dollars more for a brand new gun not a few thousand

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...