USPSA Division Revamp Based on Data

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

not everyone shoots a crazy heavy gun. lots of guys are doing very well with 320’s and glocks and caniks. you just have to grip like a grown man.

Race gun mean different things to different people. 

[shred]

Getting rid of Major scoring is a bad idea.  People that haven't shot it a lot may not realize it, but it opens up more shooting styles that don't work with Minor unless you are a freak like Nils.  Old dudes that can't sprint like spring chickens can shoot more on the move and do well.  Limited Major is competitive with CO in the hands of equally skilled shooters.

 

[BritinUSA]

Agreed

[Nolan]

The funny part about this thread is when I talk to other competitors at matches, I don't hear any of these complaints about USPSA 'competitive equity' BS, or how USPSA needs to be completely revamped, or woe is me 'production is dying'.  If I do shoot PCC, I get the usual ribbing about bringing a rifle to a pistol match, but I really don't see or get any real hate about it.  I shoot a lot of 3 gun and steel challenge with most of the same guys who shoot the pistol matches, so that may be part of the reason, but I think the real reason is most people really just don't care.  A lot of the people I see shooting either PCC or CO are like me, long time shooters who like the change of pace of shooting something different.  I've shot both Limited and Open since they've been a thing, shot Single Stack before it was a thing, tried Production, meh, it was OK, but don't like Grocks or Crunchentickers.   I haven't gotten bored enough yet to try CO, but....???

 

About the only place I see/hear this type of conversation, is here, from the same small group of people, some of whom haven't shot a USPSA match in years.  The complaints I do hear at matches are generally about ammo/component availability, gun problems, bad backs/knees/elbows/etc...  The majority of shooters are just happy to be out shooting matches and think the competitive shooting world is OK as it is.

 

Nolan

[RJH]

40 minutes ago, Nolan said:

The funny part about this thread is when I talk to other competitors at matches, I don't hear any of these complaints about USPSA 'competitive equity' BS, or how USPSA needs to be completely revamped, or woe is me 'production is dying'.  If I do shoot PCC, I get the usual ribbing about bringing a rifle to a pistol match, but I really don't see or get any real hate about it.  I shoot a lot of 3 gun and steel challenge with most of the same guys who shoot the pistol matches, so that may be part of the reason, but I think the real reason is most people really just don't care.  A lot of the people I see shooting either PCC or CO are like me, long time shooters who like the change of pace of shooting something different.  I've shot both Limited and Open since they've been a thing, shot Single Stack before it was a thing, tried Production, meh, it was OK, but don't like Grocks or Crunchentickers.   I haven't gotten bored enough yet to try CO, but....???

 

About the only place I see/hear this type of conversation, is here, from the same small group of people, some of whom haven't shot a USPSA match in years.  The complaints I do hear at matches are generally about ammo/component availability, gun problems, bad backs/knees/elbows/etc...  The majority of shooters are just happy to be out shooting matches and think the competitive shooting world is OK as it is.

 

Nolan

 

Hey now, it is the internet, pissing and moaning is what we do lol.

 

But yeah, I very rarely hear any of the bitching at matches that you see here. And even if you do hear some grumbling occasionally, people in the real seem to get over it pretty quick. It seems 99.9% realize it is just something fun to do on the weekends and nothing to get worked up about. Most times I am in that 99.9% haha

[Sarge]

52 minutes ago, Nolan said:

The funny part about this thread is when I talk to other competitors at matches, I don't hear any of these complaints about USPSA 'competitive equity' BS, or how USPSA needs to be completely revamped, or woe is me 'production is dying'.  If I do shoot PCC, I get the usual ribbing about bringing a rifle to a pistol match, but I really don't see or get any real hate about it.  I shoot a lot of 3 gun and steel challenge with most of the same guys who shoot the pistol matches, so that may be part of the reason, but I think the real reason is most people really just don't care.  A lot of the people I see shooting either PCC or CO are like me, long time shooters who like the change of pace of shooting something different.  I've shot both Limited and Open since they've been a thing, shot Single Stack before it was a thing, tried Production, meh, it was OK, but don't like Grocks or Crunchentickers.   I haven't gotten bored enough yet to try CO, but....???

 

About the only place I see/hear this type of conversation, is here, from the same small group of people, some of whom haven't shot a USPSA match in years.  The complaints I do hear at matches are generally about ammo/component availability, gun problems, bad backs/knees/elbows/etc...  The majority of shooters are just happy to be out shooting matches and think the competitive shooting world is OK as it is.

 

Nolan

To be fair the average weekend warrior doesn’t know this place exists. 

[BBolden]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:47 PM, Nolan said:

The complaints I do hear at matches are generally about ammo/component availability, gun problems, bad backs/knees/elbows/etc..

 

Nolan

I think I hit at least two of those this past weekend. 

[Alleycatdad]

Just….why?

 

Reads like F1 rules.  And we keep changing them based on the last years’ results to improve parity or some such?  
 

Seriously, I’m the least competitive guy out there but I too have been through the “yer revolver ain’t competitive in its own division any more” 6 to 8 shot change, and that was un-fun and expensive, but nobody really cared, because revolver.  
 

I suspect open and limited guys might carry a little more weight. 
 

Leave it be. Can we all just go have a nice day shooting now?

Edited April 6, 2022 by Alleycatdad

[Thomas H]

On 4/2/2022 at 7:04 PM, Racinready300ex said:

Race gun mean different things to different people. 

 

Your original comment was "CO guns are practical?"

 

When people pointed out that a lot of people shoot CO with completely practical guns and are completely competitive with them, suddenly you say you are talking about race guns?

 

You said CO.  And indeed, in CO, while some people have indeed dumped a bunch of money into highly specialized, tricked-out guns....many have not.  And as people have pointed out, 320s and Caniks have done perfectly well at the highest levels.

 

[Racinready300ex]

23 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

Your original comment was "CO guns are practical?"

 

When people pointed out that a lot of people shoot CO with completely practical guns and are completely competitive with them, suddenly you say you are talking about race guns?

 

You said CO.  And indeed, in CO, while some people have indeed dumped a bunch of money into highly specialized, tricked-out guns....many have not.  And as people have pointed out, 320s and Caniks have done perfectly well at the highest levels.

 

 

And? The comment you quoted was me replying to Moto. Apparently where he is LEO's duty gear is almost the same as a race gun. So clearly either my idea or a race gun and his are different. Or the Leo's in his area carry vary different gear than they do here. 

 

Some of the gear we allow with in the rules is a joke IMO. And making CO a 2011 division doesn't make the sport more interesting. Again, my opinion. 

[motosapiens]

12 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

And? The comment you quoted was me replying to Moto. Apparently where he is LEO's duty gear is almost the same as a race gun.

wait, wut?  guys carry glocks or p320's, and also shoot uspsa at a high level with glocks and 320's. I guess you could call a glock or 320 a 'race gun', but it sounds kind of silly if you say it out loud.

 

I mean, I guess I shoot a 'race gun' (cz shadow 2), but the trigger on it is pretty much identical to the P01 that I carry. The shadow just has a steel frame and a slightly longer barrel.

Edited April 6, 2022 by motosapiens

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

wait, wut?  guys carry glocks or p320's, and also shoot uspsa at a high level with glocks and 320's. I guess you could call a glock or 320 a 'race gun', but it sounds kind of silly if you say it out loud.

 

I mean, I guess I shoot a 'race gun' (cz shadow 2), but the trigger on it is pretty much identical to the P01 that I carry. The shadow just has a steel frame and a slightly longer barrel.

 

Yeah we have some Academy guys that come shoot our matches. They run the service 320's I certainly wouldn't call them race guns. On the surface they look pretty similar to all the other sigs. 

 

A pretty standard 320 setup I see around here will be a Legion, which weight 15 oz more? The trigger is about 2lbs so less than half the weight of theirs, basically no take up or pre travel. And that's cool, not really anything crazy there. Certainly more of a "Race" gun than a duty gun but not a meme gun yet. 

 

But then you can go farther, isn't Mason's limited gun a custom Gray Guns thing you can't even buy? I know a few guys running Tungsten guide rods, and a tungsten grip weight in the legions. That's before we get into adding a flashlight, or tungsten batteries in that flashlight. Getting the gun up to double the weight of that service gun. 

 

So maybe "race gun" means different things? 

 

But the point of this thread is should we go even farther and allow more specialized equipment. And I say, sure why not. If Nils and Mason can win with plastic clearly divisions don't matter. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

Wow.  This idea sounds horrible.