Lightest DA trigger for S&W 625 with moon clips?

[Cherokeewind]

It seems that, even with deep seated Fed LPs and Power Custom extended F Pin, about 6 3/4 to 7 pounds is the lightest reliable DA pull I can get on my 625.

 

I have no perceptible cylinder end shake.

 

I'm using TK and RS moons.  I plan to try some .45 Auto Rim brass and see if that makes any difference.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Jim

[GMM50]

Is the trigger bobbed?

[Toolguy]

2 minutes ago, GMM50 said:

Is the trigger bobbed?

It seems like that would make it even harder to pull?

[Kurusty]

Is the firing pin and spring new? Could be worn out..

[Waltermitty]

Randy Lee was getting reliable ignition with 3 1/2# pulls on N frame S&W's. The best I got was ~5# double action. I tried to search for the thread where this was covered but apparently searched too many times.

 

Let me just say, it is a very detailed and complicated subject.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Waltermitty
ETA. Link to pictures.

[Cherokeewind]

Using factory hammer, frame mounted firing pin.  Tried Apex hammer but no real improvement.  

 

The "problem" may just be this particular 625......

[Waltermitty]

3 minutes ago, Cherokeewind said:

Using factory hammer, frame mounted firing pin.  Tried Apex hammer but no real improvement.  

 

The "problem" may just be this particular 625......

 

From the factory the hammers and triggers all drag on the frame. All components must be centered in the frame. This usually requires narrowing and shimming.

 

The hammers are lightened to increase the speed of the hammer fall with lighter springs to ensure the firing pin is slapped fast enough.

 

The list is long...

[pskys2]

I'm at 5 lbs and 40 ounce hammer fall.  So far so good.  Using a TK cut down hammer and C&S Firing Pins with an 11 lb Rebound Spring cut down to .960".

[MWP]

4 hours ago, Cherokeewind said:

It seems that, even with deep seated Fed LPs and Power Custom extended F Pin, about 6 3/4 to 7 pounds is the lightest reliable DA pull I can get on my 625.

 

I have no perceptible cylinder end shake.

 

I'm using TK and RS moons.  I plan to try some .45 Auto Rim brass and see if that makes any difference.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Jim

What springs are you using?

[Toolguy]

Make sure that the firing pin is at least .500 long. Most factory ones are borderline too short. A shorter pin requires a harder hit to be reliable. I would go with a Wolff #2 mainspring and 11# rebound. A #8-32 x 1/2" long setscrew for the strain screw with some #222 (grade H now) low strength Loctite will keep it in place, but still be adjustable with an allen wrench. I make a small access hole in the grip for easy adjusting. All the above still applies.

[revoman]

3 hours ago, Toolguy said:

It seems like that would make it even harder to pull?

Now that is funny 

[Ignatz]

I always used a Lee hand primer tool to seat my large pistol primers. After that, my 625 was 100%. Apex firing pin also. 

[almostold]

2 hours ago, Ignatz said:

I always used a Lee hand primer tool to seat my large pistol primers. After that, my 625 was 100%. Apex firing pin also. 

+1

[Cherokeewind]

As I mentioned, a Power Custom FP (.508" overall), deep seated Fed LPs, polished internals.........etc.

 

Waiting for some .45 Auto Rim brass to see if that makes any difference.  Problem there, obviously, is not able to use moon clips, unless maybe having the cylinder cut for them.

 

11 pound rebound spring with a couple of coils missing, about 3 # required to pull the trigger with only the rebound spring in place.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cherokeewind

[AzShooter]

Randy set up my 625 years ago and it has a 4.5 pound DA pull.  It reliably fires Federal primers with no misfires.  You really have to seat your primers deep.  I would seat the primer, turn it around and give it another pull to double seat them as per Randy Lee's assessment.

 

I use the Power Custom Firing Pin as well and I forget who makes the moons but they were only $.25 each.  TK moons are tighter but since the cheap ones work I stayed with them.

[alecmc]

10 hours ago, AzShooter said:

Randy set up my 625 years ago and it has a 4.5 pound DA pull.  It reliably fires Federal primers with no misfires.  You really have to seat your primers deep.  I would seat the primer, turn it around and give it another pull to double seat them as per Randy Lee's assessment.

 

I use the Power Custom Firing Pin as well and I forget who makes the moons but they were only $.25 each.  TK moons are tighter but since the cheap ones work I stayed with them.

 

 

From experience, there is such as thing as *TOO DEEP* when it comes to seating federal primers. 

 

There is a sweet spot from about .008 - .012 below flush, anything past that you start seeing a degrade in performance 

[revoman]

In all my revolvers I run 6 to 6 1/2 lbs and all still have the original firing pin. Never have measured the length but they go bang every time with Federal primers. The reason for the 6 to 6 1/2 lbs as when I would go lighter I would find myself short stroking. To me when in competition I could not tell the difference between 4 1/2 to 5 over the 6 to 6 1/2 I run. 

[Cherokeewind]

I'm using the RCBS bench mounted primer seating press, RCBS calls it the "Standard Priming Tool" and after seating, I can see a "burnished" spot at the center of the primer.  

 

I suspect that the spot is caused by the cup being pressed against the priming compound and the anvil.

 

Your comments are appreciated.

 

Edit to add:  I don't seem to have the same problem with 686 DA pulls. Like revoman, 6- 6 1/2 pounds works well, I like a more robust rebound also.  With my M29 and M629, 6 1/2 pounds is easy to get with 100% reliability.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cherokeewind

[ysrracer]

I crank the crap out of the priming stroke on my Dillon 750. That primer isn't going anywhere

[Cherokeewind]

Fired 50 rounds today, 100% @ 6 1/2 pounds.  Gonna leave as is for a while...........

 

Thanks for all the comments:)

[RePete]

On 5/21/2021 at 11:17 PM, AzShooter said:

I use the Power Custom Firing Pin as well and I forget who makes the moons but they were only $.25 each.  TK moons are tighter but since the cheap ones work I stayed with them.

 

Sounds like the clips you used were from California Competition.  They were the ones I used and never had a problem with them.

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, RePete said:

 

Sounds like the clips you used were from California Competition.  They were the ones I used and never had a problem with them.

Or Ranch, they were always inexpensive.  As a side note with 45 gap brass you don't need a loading tool and little resistance on de-mooning. Yet I never had any gap brass so loose that it fell out.  Even though a few really worn moon clips were very loose with gap's.

I liked using them over 45 acp in my Revolvers, if I only had more SPP's!

[AzShooter]

3 hours ago, RePete said:

 

Sounds like the clips you used were from California Competition.  They were the ones I used and never had a problem with them.

No, they were Ranch Products.  I forgot the name but someone posted it here today.  I still have about 50 moons loaded up with my old ammo.  Guess I need to get another 625.

 

[Carmoney]

On 5/22/2021 at 8:54 AM, alecmc said:

 

 

From experience, there is such as thing as *TOO DEEP* when it comes to seating federal primers. 

 

There is a sweet spot from about .008 - .012 below flush, anything past that you start seeing a degrade in performance 

 

This is absolutely true.  Most people do not seat their primers deeply enough, but some go the other extreme and crush them in too far.  It's hard to measure and harder to describe.  When I was doing revolver action work, I finally started sending out a correctly primed case with each gun so people could visualize what their ammo should look like.  That seemed to solve most of the problems.    

[Carmoney]

On 5/22/2021 at 9:20 AM, revoman said:

The reason for the 6 to 6 1/2 lbs as when I would go lighter I would find myself short stroking.

 

You, and everybody else.