AMG Labs Timers

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, toothandnail said:

Range Tech works the same way, if you have a tablet and timer that's all you need.

How do you know if you caught the last shot with any timer?  Are you watching the timer or the shooter?
The entire shot string is visible without cycling back through review, it inputs the time of the run as well as raw time into PS

Color me weird but I watch the timer click over on the last shot all the while watching the shooter.

[zzt]

12 hours ago, Sarge said:

Color me weird but I watch the timer click over on the last shot all the while watching the shooter.

 

And you taught me to do that.

 

I bought an AMG timer quite some time ago.  I like it better than any other timer I've used.  Shortly after I got mine I was at a USPSA match and the RO was SURE he had not picked up the last PCC shot, because the time was so good.  He insisted on a reshoot.  My buddy and I whipped out our AMG timers, smothered the speaker, hit go and recorded all the shots from 20' away.  Sensitivity was set at 6.

 

I've used the timer BT connected to the pad for entire SCSA matches.  It is easy to connect.  You know which tablet is being connected, because you are asked which one if multiple tablets are on.  Once the timer and tablet are paired, they travel with the squad.  You can set the timer to push the data to the tablet, or have it wait for the scorer to request it.  If the latter, it takes about one second to transfer. So if you are running a fast rimfire shooter, make sure to wait for the okay from the scorer before you start the next string.

 

Here are some other things I like about the AMG.  First, I can read the display without using my reading glasses.  The shot count is easily read.  I count shots, because a lot of clubs have high berms and that messes with the CED 7000 timers most use.  You get echoes from the walls and the shot count is higher than what was actually shot.  If you lower the sensitivity to eliminate the echos, you don't pick up most rimfire shots.  The AMG works differently.  It never picks up echos.  For some mouse fart PCC loads in 16" barrels a sensitivity setting of 7 is necessary.  It does not affect anything else, so it is safe to leave it there.

 

For USPSA matches, I won't run a PCC shooter unless I'm using my timer.  For quiet guns like a Ruger PCC, the other timers require you climb up the shooter's butt to record the shots.  That is dangerous if the shooter decides to backtrack.  With the AMG you don't have to.  That came in really handy yesterday when a lot of shooters on two memory stages decided on an 'around the world' stage plan.

[euxx]

At indoor ranges we are often running 2..3..4 shooters side by side. The RO runs first competitor, then second, etc, time is recorded for each of them and then they all scored on two or more PractiScore tablets.

 

When the same RO is running competitors using AMG timer, the timer can be linked with more than one tablet. The trick is to keep the tablet screen on (use power button to turn it off for non-active competitors) only for an active competitor (takes a moment to explain that to the scorekeepers). Then you can pull the current time/string from the timer on that tablet when competitor finished his run.

Edited November 9, 2020 by euxx

[ts199982]

Great post zzt, exactly my thoughts! Glad I got a AMG timer.

[David.Hylton]

To close the loop- my timer arrived yesterday. Nov. 9. Now to put it to work.

 

[Sarge]

LOL I asked my wife months ago for one for my birthday. Birthday is in 3 weeks or so and she hasn’t ordered yet. I don’t have the heart to tell her there is such a back order.

[Furrly]

Your a good man Sarge

[DirkD]

On 11/8/2020 at 4:44 PM, toothandnail said:

Not sure why you think it's all secret, the timer display counts up on the tablet, in LARGE NUMBERS , that anybody can see. That display is 1000% more visible than the one on the RO's timer that nobody can see. 
Think for a second - how many people can see the timer display, in the RO's hand, while the stage is shot? VS How many are within 3-5' of the score keeper, where a LARGE display is counting up the time, showing splits, and shot count as it happens.
You actually think the RO is more likely to,  "help" or "screw" somebody when - nobody can see the timer/display? or when at minimum, 1 other person (scorekeeper) or 2-5 squad mates can also see in real time, what the time is ?
I'm not worried about cheating, as much as missing a time, or incorrect time getting entered. 
The more eyes watching a run/time, the less chance of either happening. 
SO far in my limited testing, I think it's a good system, and possibly a great system.  I understand they are working on a multi BT connection possibility, so anyone on the squad could see the timer readout on their phone.
The app also allows for pics, and I think video to be attached to the run, I haven't tested that option yet.  You can also save all your times to your acct. for whatever reason you would want to access them later.
I haven't gotten that deep into that side, and possibly never will.

what happens when the tablet loses connection to the tablet and the time isn't recorded?

Having bluetooth and a screen is nice, that way the RO can make sure the last shot is picked up as well as see the time on the timer and show it to the shooter, a timer with no display is stupid IMO.

At Nationals when they used the AMG Timers the Range Officers were told they had to put the time in manually, not use the blue tooth to enter the time, not sure why, ask Troy.

The only person that can see the tablet is the ro scoring, it isn't available to the squad, the RO sometimes will show the tablet to the shooter after the shooter shot the stage, but not always.

AMG can be set to push times to the tablet so the RO can see it happening as the stage is shot but there is also a display in case the connection is lost, I like to see the timer a good RO will try to show the shooter the timer, i have had RO's that would not show me the timer after I shot, won't shoot with them anymore.

A timer with no display is not a good timer IMO.

[Nathanb]

The time is still recorded on the timer so it’s not lost if Bluetooth goes out and if you’re scoring the stage right it makes no difference if time is entered manually or pushed via sync. I see so many people afraid of technology in the shooting sports. 

[Rich406]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

what happens when the tablet loses connection to the tablet and the time isn't recorded?

Having bluetooth and a screen is nice, that way the RO can make sure the last shot is picked up as well as see the time on the timer and show it to the shooter, a timer with no display is stupid IMO.

At Nationals when they used the AMG Timers the Range Officers were told they had to put the time in manually, not use the blue tooth to enter the time, not sure why, ask Troy.

The only person that can see the tablet is the ro scoring, it isn't available to the squad, the RO sometimes will show the tablet to the shooter after the shooter shot the stage, but not always.

AMG can be set to push times to the tablet so the RO can see it happening as the stage is shot but there is also a display in case the connection is lost, I like to see the timer a good RO will try to show the shooter the timer, i have had RO's that would not show me the timer after I shot, won't shoot with them anymore.

A timer with no display is not a good timer IMO.

‘the scoring RO has to show the shooter the tablet so that the shooter can approve their score. I’ve very rarely seen this not happen. And that’s usually because the shooter wandered off.
 

I’ve also never seen a RO not show the timer if asked. If that happened to me, it would lead to a very serious discussion with the RO. 

[RaylanGivens]

2 hours ago, DirkD said:

what happens when the tablet loses connection to the tablet and the time isn't recorded?
 

 

Then you type it in manually like we did in the past.

[DirkD]

Just now, RaylanGivens said:

 

Then you type it in manually like we did in the past.

how do you do that without a display screen on the timer?

[RaylanGivens]

1 hour ago, Nathanb said:

The time is still recorded on the timer so it’s not lost if Bluetooth goes out and if you’re scoring the stage right it makes no difference if time is entered manually or pushed via sync. I see so many people afraid of technology in the shooting sports. 

 

It makes no difference to your score, but you lose all the digital data if the time is typed in manually...  No shot times...  No graphs...  etc.

[RaylanGivens]

Just now, DirkD said:

how do you do that without a display screen on the timer?

 

Beats me...  No idea...  I have never seen or used one of the displayless timers.

 

First I have heard of them...  Not a fan.

[Michael303]

Does anyone miss having a backlit display with the AMG timer?  I'm currently using the CE Pocket Pro 2 and the backlight is nice when I'm at an indoor range and the lighting is less than desirable.

[BillChunn]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:48 PM, DirkD said:

how do you do that without a display screen on the timer?

New technology can be very helpful as long as it meets all the requirements.  One club here in the Detroit suburbs runs the AMG Labs timers for all their USPSA and SCSA matches.  They were early adopters and for some of the "old school" folks that were RO's, there was a very small learning curve.  But the technical person (along with @euxx) who setup all the timers and tablets was knowledgeable enough to guide them through it.  Thank you Rob and Eugene.  You made it a complete non-issue.  

 

As for a timer without a display screen, sorry but I won't shoot a stage with my 16" barreled PCC with the mouse fart loads if the RO has that type of timer.  The AMG timer will come out of my bag, it will be handed to the RO or preferable the CRO and if they have an issue with it, then get the MD and the RM to the stage right friggin' now.  Way, way too many points of failure.  Let me expound.....

 

As stated by @DirkD how to you determine the elapsed time let alone the number of shots recorded from a timer where the Bluetooth connection to the tablet failed?  Or the tablet dies?  Or the tablet was left on the previous stage 400 yards away, uphill and the RO ran the shooter?  Might as well rename the timer "Guaranteed Reshoot".  

 

We have quite a few PCC shooters at our club, some running the 9mm Ruger.  After running them on a stage, the very first thing that is verified on the timer is the number of shots it recorded versus the number of shots that I as the RO counted.  We shoot indoors during the winter and are one of the clubs in this area that can host indoor matches.  You want to talk about echoes?  Since the AMG runs on pressure and is fully adjustable, we have never had an issue with echoes.

 

BC

Edited November 24, 2020 by BillChunn

[euxx]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:14 AM, DirkD said:

what happens when the tablet loses connection to the tablet and the time isn't recorded?

Having bluetooth and a screen is nice, that way the RO can make sure the last shot is picked up as well as see the time on the timer and show it to the shooter, a timer with no display is stupid IMO.

 

To be fair, think of it as a microphone with a button and display being in a separate unit. Time is constantly transmitted to tablet. It is kinda good and somewhat bad at the same time. More over Rangetek timer can't be used without tablet - it does need connected app (either PractiScore or their own app).

 

I've tried to get some details based on a real range experience with this from @toothandnail earlier in this thread but that didn't go anywhere.

 

With AMG timer you can run stage and time shown on display can be pulled over Bluetooth on demand until next string. So, tablet doesn't need to be connected with the timer.

 

Quote

At Nationals when they used the AMG Timers the Range Officers were told they had to put the time in manually, not use the blue tooth to enter the time, not sure why, ask Troy.

 

@RaylanGivens why I'm not surprised?

 

 

 

[euxx]

7 hours ago, BillChunn said:

As stated by @DirkD how to you determine the elapsed time let alone the number of shots recorded from a timer where the Bluetooth connection to the tablet failed?  Or the tablet dies?  Or the tablet was left on the previous stage 400 yards away, uphill and the RO ran the shooter?  Might as well rename the timer "Guaranteed Reshoot". 

 

Can't really start the Rangetek timer without app running on the tablet.

 

But if tablet loses connection in the middle of the run, you may not get the final time. I have to confirm if you could reconnect before end of the run and still receive the final shots from the timer. I've got mixed results with that.

 

[BillChunn]

8 hours ago, euxx said:

 

Can't really start the Rangetek timer without app running on the tablet.

 

So in the proposed scenario where the tablet was left on the previous stage, 400 yards away.... the entire squad has to wait until someone walks back and gets the tablet.  That will certainly speed up the match... or someone cranks up the app on their phone.  But now you have scores on multiple devices.  And here I thought it was just a great opportunity to become a GM (ahhh... as a Tablet Master).  Good luck pulling all that data accurately to a master device to upload.   By the way, the 400 yards is no joke.  Going from Bay 1 to Bay 7 at a club in Brighton Michigan is at least 400 yards and it is uphill.

 

The RangeTek timer runs on rechargeable lithium batteries. What happens when the battery lifecycle ends?   Yes, there is a lifecycle.  It's approximately 3 years or between 300 and 500 charges.  Since there is no available battery to purchase (website states "never buy batteries again") it looks like your RangeTek timer is headed for the recycle bin and you are buying another one for $74.99 or more.

 

Being associated with a club that has been running USPSA matches for over 27 years, we tend to look at purchases from a "long term" point of view.  Buying new timers every 3 years would not get past our Board of Directors.  YMMV.

 

BC

[RaylanGivens]

19 hours ago, euxx said:

@RaylanGivens why I'm not surprised?

 

 

Our range supplied a lot of range officers for the Frostproof Nationals...  and I shot the PCC Nationals...  First I've heard that Troy requested them not use Bluetooth to pull times.

 

[euxx]

2 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Our range supplied a lot of range officers for the Frostproof Nationals...  and I shot the PCC Nationals...  First I've heard that Troy requested them not use Bluetooth to pull times.

 

 

None of the classifier-to-be stages have the timer data. Kinda no brainer to collect the data for GM runs if you know they will became classifiers. I was wondering why it wasn't done.

 

Btw, fun fact. Out of about 10k matches I've got from 2019, there are 1900 classifier runs that have the timer data. I have to see if I could pull the 2020 matches...