Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[2tuf4u]

Any info yet on small drum price?

[OptimiStick]

my new digital has been within .1 with n320. 9MM, ordered as 9MM, so I assume it came with the small drum.

[Clint007]

ADDENDUM 9/14: Okay, I answered by own question below...after exploring various degrees of lock nut position, my primer height variances have resolved. I had the shellplate too loose after all.

 

 

Mark 7 was curious why my machine was apparently so prone to primer jams etc. Despite some attempted work-throughs by phone, nothing seemed to work. I offered to remove the priming system and send it in, but they kindly suggested we just swap out the entire machine. So they will have my old machine, and I now have a new Evo. Very good customer service all things considered.

 

My priming issues have mostly resolved. The only issues I have are those same darn WMA cases with ringers, that slip by the Swage Sense. But hopefully those will stop as I cull those cases out.   but the 1-2% primer jams that were occurring with all headstamps has ceased. Something was up with my priming system and hopefully Mark 7 will learn from my machine...

 

I am having a 'new' issue now, actually. I'm getting highly variable primer seating depth. Some are too low, some are too high. The variance is extreme, so it's not going to be resolved by adjusting that bolt that drives down on the rocker from the toolhead.

 

I sent an email and I'm awaiting a reply.  But today, while on my lunchbreak, it occurred to me that too much vertical play in the shellplate might contribute to that issue. I had to install my shellplate, so maybe my lock nut is too loose?  Maybe I need the lock nut screwed down more.    But how tight?

 

If you are NOT having primer seating depth issues with 9mm, and can post a video of a view of the side of your shellplate during cycling, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to know how much up-and-down movement of the case is normal during the primer insertion phase of the cycle.

 

Is your lock nut just loose enough to allow rotation of the shellplate with some mild effort?  Or tighter?

 

Are you using a back-up (hold-down) die of some kind at priming...such as a resizing die with the de-priming center removed, as suggested by Mark 7?  I was originally using a 0.32 caliber 'back-up' die from a Dillon 1050, but I noticed the bottom of that die would actually squash down the burr on the primer hole, making the primer flash hole variably smaller...and didn't want to introduce that variable into my loads just right now. So I'm using a resizing die as suggested..

C

Edited September 15, 2019 by Clint007

[slavex]

really hoping my digital measure comes back with a smaller drum in it, I've been asking for that all along. 

[tanks]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:20 PM, Clint007 said:

...  But today, while on my lunchbreak, it occurred to me that too much vertical play in the shellplate might contribute to that issue. I had to install my shellplate, so maybe my lock nut is too loose?  Maybe I need the lock nut screwed down more.    But how tight?

 

This is what I do with the shell plate tightness. I tighten it to the max. Then, I loosen it just enough so I can move the shell plate by hand. I single cycle the machine to make sure it still moves, if too tight then loosen it a bit more until the machine can run and I see the shell plate advancing. Once I am satisfied then I tighten all the screws, put the tool head back on etc..

[slavex]

Got my Revo back up and running this weekend. Holy crap the new powder measure rocks. I ran 500 rounds through just to measure the powder in each one, aim was 3.20gr of Titegroup, result was high of 3.24 low of 3.18, but the 3.24 was a single case out of 500, the rest were 3.22 as a high. so a 0.02gr+/- variance, I'm happy with that. Then random checking over the next 4500 rounds loaded and still managed the same 3.22 top and 3.18 lowest, but almost all were bang on at 3.20gr. The smaller cavity in the drum and the double actuation at the top help with all that I think. Also the new adjustment setup is a huge improvement, easy to set and lock, and no backing off. Only thing I wish was that they had a micrometer adjustment screw, but this new setup is a lot better than the old one.

The primer orientation sensor is also a great little device, took me a bit to get it set, but over the 4500 rounds it caught all but one upside down primer, and there were only 6 total over the 4500. The new primer disk and upgraded toolhead are the biggest improvement to the machine though, no crushed primers, no screwed up primers, just those 6 upside down ones. love it. 

 

[2tuf4u]

Describe the updated toolhead---what is different?

[slavex]

The new toolhead has an index pin for the new primer collator, it positively lines up the primer disc with the shell plate and primer seating punch. I've now loaded 2500 rounds with federal primers and not a single problem. Couldn't do that before. 

Here's a short video of it working. 

 

 

 

[MikeyScuba]

Cool beans!

 

If I may ask what were the ITAR issues?  I was hoping to get a machine sent to my US box and I'll bring it over (didn't email Mark7 yet to see if they can supply the right doc's)

[slavex]

the Revo is covered under ITAR regs and as such there are permits and such that have to be dealt with, and those can take a lot of time. The Evolution, even the automated one however is not, and it and it's parts can be sent back and forth with no issues. Which is dumb, because they have the exact same parts other than the direct connect of the Revo

[MikeyScuba]

Good to know!  I never new the difference between the 2 machines.

[mikamarj]

I was not really happy with the difficult adjustment of the Mark 7 BulletSense, so I gathered a team of engineers and other autists and we developed the BENIS -- Bullet Evaluation, Notification & Interruption System. Now there is no mirror to adjust, only need to open one thumb screw and move sensor to correct position, tighten the screw and done. As you can see the BENIS sensor is also green so is guud for environment.

[tanks]

And it provides the right inputs to the Mark 7 system, can be disabled/enabled from touchpad and stops the machine automatically?

 

[mikamarj]

2 minutes ago, tanks said:

And it provides the right inputs to the Mark 7 system, can be disabled/enabled from touchpad and stops the machine automatically?

 

Of course. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

[tanks]

Just out of curiosity what are you loading, those cases are full of powder almost to the brim?

[mikamarj]

11 minutes ago, tanks said:

Just out of curiosity what are you loading, those cases are full of powder almost to the brim?

9mm major with 8.7gr 3N38

[Steyrarms]

@slavex what powder you are using? I‘m from Austria an using swiss Powder RS20.

This stuff is straight from hell, super performance but gives every powder measure a hard time. Very fine flake powder....right now I‘m using a Redding Powder measure 10X that works realy good, but I‘m always open to try new stuff.

 

Thanks in advance

[slavex]

@Steyrarms I'm using Tightgroup. After I watched this video I noticed the powder spill I was getting around the powder measure station, not a lot, but some. I also had a few cases not get powder, the measure wasn't activating. I was all ready to get mad about it, but then put 2 and 2 together and realized I hadn't adjusted the powder measure die down far enough, which meant that the odd case wouldn't push the measure up high enough to trigger the switch and throw powder, it also meant I wasn't getting a good tight seal of the funnel and the case (with the digital measure the funnel goes on the outside of the case, not into the case. Once I adjusted it down further, both problems vanished. The only reason I see spilled powder now is if I pull a case to confirm weight and then bump the case on something when I go to put it back and spill some, which means that case gets dumped and run at the end. 

Probably the best sensor for me now is the orientation sensor, no more live rounds with upside down primers. Some primers run perfect, Federal, CCI, and S&B, not one upside down in 15,000 loaded for me and a couple others. But my practice primers and likely soon to be match primers, Ginex (softer than Federal), seem to manage to make it into the disk upside down. I'm going to run a couple thousand with no cases to see how it happens and see if I can tune the collator better. They are so soft that trying to carefully unseat them for reuse is seldom successful. I can do that with Feds without leaving a dent, not the Ginex, they distort super easy. 

[Steyrarms]

Thanks for this more than usefull information.

I‘m from Austria so it will take some time to get the electronic powder measure. I‘m happy that i did not buy the Gen. 1 version as quite a few people hat troubles with them.

I only use S&B SP Primer, usually there are 2-3 flipped in a 1000... With 15k rounds this would be 75 Rounds or less than 16 Usd. ... so for me it‘s not worth it. The only real „problem“ i have, if there are only 40 or so primers in the bowl, i need to tune vibration down to keep the slid feeding. With a hair higher vibration it want work anymore. So I ensure there are always enough primer in the bowl.

 

Other than that, i love my evo pro

[Laurent_FR]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:12 PM, mikamarj said:

I was not really happy with the difficult adjustment of the Mark 7 BulletSense, so I gathered a team of engineers and other autists and we developed the BENIS -- Bullet Evaluation, Notification & Interruption System. Now there is no mirror to adjust, only need to open one thumb screw and move sensor to correct position, tighten the screw and done. As you can see the BENIS sensor is also green so is guud for environment.

@mikamarj

HI Mikamarj,

Do you sell it, i am interested ?

[mikamarj]

1 hour ago, Laurent_FR said:

@mikamarj

HI Mikamarj,

Do you sell it, i am interested ?

Hi,
Currently I have no plans on commercial production. This prototype was built with Pepperl-Fuchs OMT150-R103-2EP-IO-V31 laser proximity sensor that requires some special programming hardware, maybe one could find a simpler sensor to do the same...
On Mark 7 side, the connector has 2 pins connected when bullet is detected.

[Laurent_FR]

 

@mikamarj

Thanks for this information !

 

Nice job !

[2tuf4u]

Steyrarms --I would like to see how you attached and setup the Redding 10x on the press---it's a fantastic measure. Thx

[Steyrarms]

Hi 2tuf4u - well I'm just the user of this System, but I asked the maker of the addaption kit if it was OK to post it here online --> he just gave me a go ahead.

 

The conversion is based on a Hornady linkage kit, all you Need is to replace the handle of the Redding powder measure by a customized link so it can fit the actuating arm and a new drop tube so it fits into the hornady powder drop die.

 

The green drop tube from Redding Needs to go, that is a pretty simple Task.

 

Since I'm using Swiss Reload RS20, a very good powder, that unfortunately is the worst for powder measure (fine thin flake powder), I had to add 2 more come back springs. With just the hornady spring in place, the powder measure would jam from time to time. With the 2 extra springs in place, I have done About 17.000 rounds so far and not a single charge was missing.

 

I load 5gr target with a Variation of +- 0.07 grain --> I use a Satorius entris 64 so I'm Pretty sure my measurements are correct.

 

Where are you located? I still Need some contact in the US to help me out a bit, in return I could provide the drawings for the kit :)

 

ATB 

Steyrarms

[2tuf4u]

I am in Omaha, Nebraska--Hornady is 150 miles away. Redding indicated zero interest in the use of their excellent 10-x powder measure  for automated or non- automated use. If I can help,let me know--I visit the site daily. Thx for the pics.