Lo-Cap Thoughts

[PatJones]

There hasn't been as much content on here lately as there used to be, so I thought I'd do my part. What follows is largely an email I sent to a friend over the winter discussing my thoughts and current experiences in shooting.

 

I am a revolver shooter. Searching for folks to compete against, I also spend time shooting Single Stack and in years past, Production. I typically pick major matches that I want to shoot with the revolver and dedicate a block of time during the year to spend with the round gun. What I experienced this winter in coming back to revolver was interesting to me.

 

When you have extra ammunition during a stage you can shoot much more aggressively. If you're calling your shots and you see a mistake, you can learn to instantly make the shot up. Shooting revolver, for years I thought was calling my shots, but I was not. Calling the shot happens after the shot breaks. I knew where each shot was going because I spent a lot of time before the shot broke shooting far too carefully.

 

As you all know, you can haul balls shooting and -usually- get away with it. This is where the shot calling feedback loop comes in. You shoot fast, you almost always hit and you -always- know where the shot went. You shoot, observe, then react to what you saw. This is very different than what I have to do to shoot -completely- clean with with a revolver, I think shot calling is a more difficult skill to master. It can be faster to makeup the occasional miss than it is to guarantee the shot before it leaves the barrel. I've been working hard to stay in this feedback loop with my single stack, but I only have one makeup shot in many positions. The pace of my shooting is very different when I have that extra round up the pipe.

 

Coming back to the 8 shot revolver, we almost never have extra ammo so I have to know exactly where the shot is going before the it breaks. I can still call the shot and make it up, but that's a 2 second reload in most cases. I'm aiming more and carefully squeezing the trigger, I can't often afford to react to what I see after the shot breaks. I'm out of the shot calling feedback loop I'm trying to build. Shooting in "revolver mode" is making me feel like the world's best D class shooter. Time plus scoring in ICORE only magnifies this feeling.

 

For years I was trying to avoid an extra reload, but that math is not always beneficial. On a very elementary level, if the stage naturally breaks down so that you’re not shooting to capacity in every position don’t fight it. I know from practice that a single stack reload costs me about 2 tenths when reloading on the move. If I get to the next position with extra ammo, I can shoot faster with less risk. If I shoot my splits .05 faster, after 4 shots the reload was a net gain. If I’m a tenth faster, it only takes 2 shots to “pay” for the reload. The math changes with a revolver. My reload costs me a half second on the move, but going one for one on difficult targets costs a fair bit of time. If I have makeup shots available for an array, I can exit “revolver mode” and return to calling my shots after they break.

 

The next part is something I’m struggling with when shooting revolver. I can go one for one on the targets and sometimes you need to, but I think I’m shooting too slowly when I do this. I can go faster, but I risk a standing reload. I’m starting to think that taking a standing reload or two over the course of a major match might be OK if, and only if, I can learn to slow down less when I’m required to shoot to capacity.

 

It has been my experience that shooting other divisions can help improve your shooting, but only if you spend large blocks of time with each firearm. In my case, there is not as much information out there about revolvers as there is with the more mainstream divisions. Things I learn shooting one firearm can be applied to the others. Differing firearms can change the shooting experience in ways that were not obvious to me when I started this sport. A friend recently told me that a limited gun has an “on switch” whereas the single stack has "accelerator pedal." Given this winter’s observations, his words have stuck in my mind.

 

--

Pat Jones

Firestone CO

USPSA #A79592

Edited April 19, 2020 by PatJones

[Bill Sahlberg]

I have shot revolver in competition since 1976. Loved Steel Challenge with 5 targets and 6 shots.

 

Now with my 8 shot, I love USPSA & SC both. Shot some ICORe had fun lots of good guys but the 10 hour round trip wasn't  fun.

 

At 66, I am just happy to still be shooting!

[Rnlinebacker]

There hasn't been as much content on here lately as there used to be, so I thought I'd do my part. What follows is largely an email I sent to a friend over the winter discussing my thoughts and current experiences in shooting.
 
I am a revolver shooter. Searching for folks to compete against, I also spend time shooting Single Stack and in years past, Production. I typically pick major matches that I want to shoot with the revolver and dedicate a block of time during the year to spend with the round gun. What I experienced this winter in coming back to revolver was interesting to me.
 
When you have extra ammunition during a stage you can shoot much more aggressively. If you're calling your shots and you see a mistake, you can learn to instantly make the shot up. Shooting revolver, for years I thought was calling my shots, but I was not. Calling the shot happens after the shot breaks. I knew where each shot was going because I spent a lot of time before the shot broke shooting far too carefully.
 
As you all know, you can haul balls shooting and -usually- get away with it. This is where the shot calling feedback loop comes in. You shoot fast, you almost always hit and you -always- know where the shot went. You shoot, observe, then react to what you saw. This is very different than what I have to do to shoot -completely- clean with with a revolver, I think shot calling is a more difficult skill to master. It can be faster to makeup the occasional miss than it is to guarantee the shot before it leaves the barrel. I've been working hard to stay in this feedback loop with my single stack, but I only have one makeup shot in many positions. The pace of my shooting is very different when I have that extra round up the pipe.
 
Coming back to the 8 shot revolver, we almost never have extra ammo so I have to know exactly where the shot is going before the it breaks. I can still call the shot and make it up, but that's a 2 second reload in most cases. I'm aiming more and carefully squeezing the trigger, I can't often afford to react to what I see after the shot breaks. I'm out of the shot calling feedback loop I'm trying to build. Shooting in "revolver mode" is making me feel like the world's best D class shooter. Time plus scoring in ICORE only magnifies this feeling.
 
For years I was trying to avoid an extra reload, but that math is not always beneficial. On a very elementary level, if the stage naturally breaks down so that you’re not shooting to capacity in every position don’t fight it. I know from practice that a single stack reload costs me about 2 tenths when reloading on the move. If I get to the next position with extra ammo, I can shoot faster with less risk. If I shoot my splits .05 faster, after 4 shots the reload was a net gain. If I’m a tenth faster, it only takes 2 shots to “pay” for the reload. The math changes with a revolver. My reload costs me a half second on the move, but going one for one on difficult targets costs a fair bit of time. If I have makeup shots available for an array, I can exit “revolver mode” and return to calling my shots after they break.
 
The next part is something I’m struggling with when shooting revolver. I can go one for one on the targets and sometimes you need to, but I think I’m shooting too slowly when I do this. I can go faster, but I risk a standing reload. I’m starting to think that taking a standing reload or two over the course of a major match might be OK if, and only if, I can learn to slow down less when I’m required to shoot to capacity.
 
It has been my experience that shooting other divisions can help improve your shooting, but only if you spend large blocks of time with each firearm. In my case, there is not as much information out there about revolvers as there is with the more mainstream divisions. Things I learn shooting one firearm can be applied to the others. Differing firearms can change the shooting experience in ways that were not obvious to me when I started this sport. A friend recently told me that a limited gun has an “on switch” whereas the single stack has "accelerator pedal." Given this winter’s observations, his words have stuck in my mind.
 
--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592

Welcome to the dark side lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[matteekay]

Enjoyed reading this as much the second time through. Thanks for all the insights.

 

I'm still toying with another division to work on some of the other elements of shooting (particularly transitions and moving in and out of positions) but revo's going to be a main one. 6-shot major lately, because life is suffering. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by matteekay

[konkapot]

Never shot revolver, but have found that switching around a little bit broadens my depth of knowledge, and that it makes me more appreciative of shooting a highcap gun. 

 

I don't know that it makes me a better shooter in the long run. 

[MemphisMechanic]

Have you noticed a decline in locap friendliness with the gain in carry optics and PCC shooters? Around here it’s common to run into stages designed by guys who really don’t think about laying things out to be interesting for guns with 6 to 10 rounds in them.

 

 Either there are no options (everyone in Prod or SS has to reload in the exact same spots, thereby making us shoot the stage the same way.)

 

Or all of the options suck (multiple flatfooted reloads.)

 

I find myself enjoying carry optics more than production these days, simply because *all* of the stages are enjoyable with the extra capacity.

[Racinready300ex]

Back when I was shooting revo I had similar thoughts, which eventually led to me leaving Revo.

 

With minor scoring points matter a lot, Revo has low hit factors which weight even more on the points. 8 shot arrays with a 8 shot gun and a slow 2 second ish reload all put together you have to shoot basically in bulls eye mode. You need to aim every shot instead of trying to call your shots. I also was thinking because you're always reloading when you move and those reloads are so slow you never really need to master shooting into or out of a positions. Shooting on the move isn't really a priority either. All those things add risk of loosing precious points and while they may help you get to the next position faster you wont be ready to shoot when you get there. Especially if the stages have short movements and lots of targets. I've noticed stages seem to be tailored toward hi-cap guns. There is almost always something you could be shooting.

 

That along with the lack of competitors to push me to train, I felt like shooting revolver was holding back my progression as a shooter. Since then I've jumped around a lot, I've shot Open, Limited, Single Stack, now CO. I'm also a fan of spending large blocks of time with a gun. Typically I switch divisions in the fall, dry fire all winter and shoot the next season in the new division. I've progressed a lot in the last 5 years since leaving Revo behind.

 

I've moved to CO this year because I'm seeing the writing on the wall. CO is going to be big. In this area Pro numbers are falling fast. CO is regulary the biggest division at club matches and now even at majors. Our Area match this year CO is the biggest division at 136 shooters. I think it'll continue to grow, it's a fun hi-cap division to shoot and cheaper then limited or open.

[ysrracer]

4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

I've moved to CO this year because I'm seeing the writing on the wall.

 

I'm thinking of moving to Colorado too, California sucks

[Racinready300ex]

16 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

I'm thinking of moving to Colorado too, California sucks

 

I wish that was what I meant lol

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 I also was thinking because you're always reloading when you move and those reloads are so slow you never really need to master shooting into or out of a positions. Shooting on the move isn't really a priority either. All those things add risk of loosing precious points and while they may help you get to the next position faster you wont be ready to shoot when you get there. Especially if the stages have short movements and lots of targets. I've noticed stages seem to be tailored toward hi-cap guns. There is almost always something you could be shooting.

this has been one of my big improvements in revo the last season, the reload is the time limiter in most movement so shoot flat footed and reload while moving at the pace that lets you shoot as soon as you get where your going. shooting into or out of a position tends to means you are dropping points you don't need to and very rarely gaining any time. 

 

21 hours ago, PatJones said:

For years I was trying to avoid an extra reload, but that math is not always beneficial. On a very elementary level, if the stage naturally breaks down so that you’re not shooting to capacity in every position don’t fight it. I know from practice that a single stack reload costs me about 2 tenths when reloading on the move. If I get to the next position with extra ammo, I can shoot faster with less risk. If I shoot my splits .05 faster, after 4 shots the reload was a net gain. If I’m a tenth faster, it only takes 2 shots to “pay” for the reload. The math changes with a revolver. My reload costs me a half second on the move, but going one for one on difficult targets costs a fair bit of time. If I have makeup shots available for an array, I can exit “revolver mode” and return to calling my shots after they break.

 

The next part is something I’m struggling with when shooting revolver. I can go one for one on the targets and sometimes you need to, but I think I’m shooting too slowly when I do this. I can go faster, but I risk a standing reload. I’m starting to think that taking a standing reload or two over the course of a major match might be OK if, and only if, I can learn to slow down less when I’m required to shoot to capacity.

If I MUST shoot to 8 I will but if I can bury a reload in movement and especially if I can get closer to a target with movement and a extra reload I will, at the end of a match I am often surprised by the lack of empty moons compared to those with live rounds left in them. I may be lucky in that 8 shot arrays are not the standard at the USPSA matches I attend.

[matteekay]

6 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Have you noticed a decline in locap friendliness with the gain in carry optics and PCC shooters? Around here it’s common to run into stages designed by guys who really don’t think about laying things out to be interesting for guns with 6 to 10 rounds in them.

 

For sure. The last super-classifier I went to was all stages with "no" reloads - if you were shooting a hi-cap gun. They were all 8-shot stages, so you're hosed if you miss with a minor gun, and completely screwed if you brought a Major gun. Like I did. Total waste of time.

 

 

5 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

That along with the lack of competitors to push me to train, I felt like shooting revolver was holding back my progression as a shooter. Since then I've jumped around a lot, I've shot Open, Limited, Single Stack, now CO. I'm also a fan of spending large blocks of time with a gun. Typically I switch divisions in the fall, dry fire all winter and shoot the next season in the new division. I've progressed a lot in the last 5 years since leaving Revo behind.

 

I've wondered a lot about that. I'm still planning to shoot the IRC this year (if it happens) so I'm sticking with wheelgun for now, but I can't shake the idea of shooting a bottomfeeder for some or all of next season to work on some of the things you mentioned.

 

 

56 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

I'm thinking of moving to Colorado too

 

You and everyone else. I hear Idaho is actually the cool place to go now...

 

As someone who regularly competes in both, I can say that IDPA's capacity limits and time-down scoring make shooting revo way less painful than it is in USPSA. Hell, I've won a fair amount of locals or placed first in irons (typically losing to 3 or so CO/PCC shooters). Interestingly, they don't seem to be suffering from a lack of revolver shooters to the same degree that USPSA is. I'm registered for our IDPA Regional match and USPSA state championship, which are about a month apart. IDPA has 9 revolvers in a field of 238, USPSA has 3 in a field of 256 (and two of which are Pat and myself). Sure, we're talking 3+% compared to 1% of shooters, but I think it stands to reason that USPSA being extra-painful has accelerated the dropoff in this sport.

[CHA-LEE]

Beyond the Shooting differences between Lo-Hi cap divisions, the bigger donation in performance Lo-Cap divisions produce is how much the reloading gun handling throughout the whole stage dramatically impacts movement aggression. Lo-Cap shooters have a really hard time learning how to truly haul ass between shooting positions. Their ability to haul ass between shooting positions is usually limited to the aggressiveness of their gun handling. If you can't finish an aggressive reload within a step of leaving the shooting position WHILE hauling ass exiting the position then you are doing it wrong. If you are donating several seconds of time on each field course simply because you are not hauling ass between positions, it really doesn't matter how fast or slow you are shooting.

 

When I am teaching students about movement aggression I challenge them to run between two positions as aggressively as they can without any gun handling involved. Simply, haul the mail as aggressively as you can from one position to the next. That movement will take a certain mount of time. Use that time as a Par time while incorporating gun handling tasks to see if or how much the gun handling tasks are impacting your movement time. I actually made a YouTube video about this in the past and posted it below for reference.

 

 

[matteekay]

Charlie Perez? Never heard of him 

 

That's a really good video.

[MikeBurgess]

28 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Beyond the Shooting differences between Lo-Hi cap divisions, the bigger donation in performance Lo-Cap divisions produce is how much the reloading gun handling throughout the whole stage dramatically impacts movement aggression. Lo-Cap shooters have a really hard time learning how to truly haul ass between shooting positions. Their ability to haul ass between shooting positions is usually limited to the aggressiveness of their gun handling. If you can't finish an aggressive reload within a step of leaving the shooting position WHILE hauling ass exiting the position then you are doing it wrong. If you are donating several seconds of time on each field course simply because you are not hauling ass between positions, it really doesn't matter how fast or slow you are shooting.

 

When I am teaching students about movement aggression I challenge them to run between two positions as aggressively as they can without any gun handling involved. Simply, haul the mail as aggressively as you can from one position to the next. That movement will take a certain mount of time. Use that time as a Par time while incorporating gun handling tasks to see if or how much the gun handling tasks are impacting your movement time. I actually made a YouTube video about this in the past and posted it below for reference.

 

 

I think shooting a Revolver a good drill would be the inverse of your linked drill,  your reload is your par time, then work moving between positions increase the distance, or change the direction, rather than lower par time to push improvement. 

 

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

6 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

I think shooting a Revolver a good drill would be the inverse of your linked drill,  your reload is your par time, then work moving between positions increase the distance, or change the direction, rather than lower par time to push improvement. 

 

 

 

 

What you advised kind of works but it also assumes that their reloading mechanics don't completely fall apart once they start moving aggressively. The maximum movement distance I usually advise while really hauling ass to complete a reload is 8 feet as that is a very common movement distance that you see in matches. 8 feet is the length of the average Wall you see in matches and most of the "haul ass" movement we are tasked with doing is from one end of a wall to another. Sure there are shorter and longer "haul ass" movements needed in stages. But the 8 foot distance is by far the most common.

 

I understand where you are coming from with keeping track of distance covered while using your reload Par time. But that also doesn't matter if your reload is 2 - 3 seconds and you can move 10 - 20 feet during that time. If the movement required is only 8 feet and your reload is slow enough to allow you to move 10 - 20 feet, then the solution isn't to move faster. The solution is to reload faster so that you can get the reload done while hauling ass within a short 8 foot distance.

 

I have yet to see a top level shooter move between shooting positions with 100% aggression while performing a turtle slow reload. Hand speed and foot speed are usually tied to the same level of aggression or lack there of. 

[MikeBurgess]

26 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

What you advised kind of works but it also assumes that their reloading mechanics don't completely fall apart once they start moving aggressively. The maximum movement distance I usually advise while really hauling ass to complete a reload is 8 feet as that is a very common movement distance that you see in matches. 8 feet is the length of the average Wall you see in matches and most of the "haul ass" movement we are tasked with doing is from one end of a wall to another. Sure there are shorter and longer "haul ass" movements needed in stages. But the 8 foot distance is by far the most common.

 

I understand where you are coming from with keeping track of distance covered while using your reload Par time. But that also doesn't matter if your reload is 2 - 3 seconds and you can move 10 - 20 feet during that time. If the movement required is only 8 feet and your reload is slow enough to allow you to move 10 - 20 feet, then the solution isn't to move faster. The solution is to reload faster so that you can get the reload done while hauling ass within a short 8 foot distance.

 

I have yet to see a top level shooter move between shooting positions with 100% aggression while performing a turtle slow reload. Hand speed and foot speed are usually tied to the same level of aggression or lack there of. 

I agree, that was my point behind making your reload the par time, with a revo almost all position changes involve a reload and learning to move aggressively without the reload falling apart is very important. Its very easy to move 8 feet side to side during a 3 second reload its much harder to move 16 feet or to go in a odd direction or around an obstacle. Basically with a revo its focus on the reload and learn to move in the time allowed, vs autos where you move as fast as possible and learn to do the gun handling in the time allowed. 

 

 

[PatJones]

 

14 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Have you noticed a decline in locap friendliness with the gain in carry optics and PCC shooters? ... Either there are no options (everyone in Prod or SS has to reload in the exact same spots, thereby making us shoot the stage the same way.)...Or all of the options suck (multiple flatfooted reloads.)...

 

I think there's really only one fastest plan on any stage, it's very rare that I choose do something different than the Limited guys regardless of gun I'm shooting. The fastest plan is still the fastest plan. Maybe lo-cap shoots one target from a different location. I'll take a standing reload with a smile if it cleans up the rest of the stage for me. What's your reload time? It's about a second and a half to exit a position and another second and a half to settle into a new one. If enough targets are available, standing reloads can be faster.

 

8 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

this has been one of my big improvements in revo the last season, the reload is the time limiter in most movement so shoot flat footed and reload while moving at the pace that lets you shoot as soon as you get where your going. shooting into or out of a position tends to means you are dropping points you don't need to and very rarely gaining any time.

 

In all divisions, it makes no sense to exit a position while shooting if the reload is a going to be crowded by the distance you have to move into the next position. The math is a bit different with a Revo vs a bottom feeder but it applies to everyone.

 

7 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Beyond the Shooting differences between Lo-Hi cap divisions, the bigger donation in performance Lo-Cap divisions produce is how much the reloading gun handling throughout the whole stage dramatically impacts movement aggression. Lo-Cap shooters have a really hard time learning how to truly haul ass between shooting positions. Their ability to haul ass between shooting positions is usually limited to the aggressiveness of their gun handling. If you can't finish an aggressive reload within a step of leaving the shooting position WHILE hauling ass exiting the position then you are doing it wrong. If you are donating several seconds of time on each field course simply because you are not hauling ass between positions, it really doesn't matter how fast or slow you are shooting.

 

When I am teaching students about movement aggression I challenge them to run between two positions as aggressively as they can without any gun handling involved. Simply, haul the mail as aggressively as you can from one position to the next. That movement will take a certain mount of time. Use that time as a Par time while incorporating gun handling tasks to see if or how much the gun handling tasks are impacting your movement time.

 

5 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I agree, that was my point behind making your reload the par time, with a revo almost all position changes involve a reload and learning to move aggressively without the reload falling apart is very important. Its very easy to move 8 feet side to side during a 3 second reload its much harder to move 16 feet or to go in a odd direction or around an obstacle. Basically with a revo its focus on the reload and learn to move in the time allowed, vs autos where you move as fast as possible and learn to do the gun handling in the time allowed. 

 

 

 

Shooting a higher capacity division, it certainly exposes your weaknesses in movement aggression sooner. Maybe a Limited gun pairs better with a lo-cap than another lo-cap does.

 

I've been working on this in practice. I build a small stage and after shooting it a few times I begin to work sections of it without reloads. I don't shoot limited, but I try to pretend I'm shooting a limited gun in practice. Maybe I only engage the last target at a position and the first two at the next while I shoot a piece of steel on the way. Production guns make it much easier to do this, you can load them to capacity. This form of practice is where I say the reload costs me about .2 with an auto and .5 with a revolver when I move.

 

I've been focusing on having the gun up up, extended and ready to shoot as soon as possible. The foot speed needs to match this, but I'm trying to have the gun up and extended before I completely clear the vision barrier. I'm letting the reload and extension drive the foot speed on the movements. I know how long it takes to reload and extend the gun, the job of my feet is having targets available when the sights settle. Charlie would be the judge on this, but I hope I'm losing the "revolver shuffle."

 

On short movements, maybe 5 feet or less, I'm limited by my reload but I see a lot of low cap shooters do what Charlie describes. I definitely fit that description in the past and I'm working on it. To be fair, there are shorter than typical movements where prioritizing the reload over the movement gets the gun up and ready to shoot sooner. As I work on it I am finding and more more places where I can pop at least one or two hard steps after I seat a mag or drop a moon clip in.  I think it's adding up. With the revolver, I'm losing majors on points instead of time now.

[PatJones]

11 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

I'm thinking of moving to Colorado too, California sucks

I had a great time in California at the Western States in February, but we do have a crazy number of matches in Colorado. Some divisions see more activity, but the Eastern Colorado section is lucky to have Masters and GMs in every division.

[shred]

IME, the balance shifts away from speed and way over to points with the locap minor divisions.  When one C costs nearly half a second at 5 HF, transitions need to be spot-on to the center of the A and not just slamming the gun over to somewhere in the A-C region.  Save the C's for when they are unavoidable if you can.

 

It's somewhat less of a thing for the hicap minor shooters because there's usually enough more options that the HF bumps up a bit.

 

 

 

 

[DyNo!]

Very good discussion.

 

Been shooting IPSC minor Classic (Single Stack with a bull barrel) for several years straight now.

 

There's really a low threshold for failure and the only division that is even less forgiving of mistakes is revolver.

 

If you stop respecting your sights with a skinny gun or a round gun, you are in for a quick wake-up call.

[PatJones]

IME, the balance shifts away from speed and way over to points with the locap minor divisions.  When one C costs nearly half a second at 5 HF, transitions need to be spot-on to the center of the A and not just slamming the gun over to somewhere in the A-C region.  Save the C's for when they are unavoidable if you can.
 
It's somewhat less of a thing for the hicap minor shooters because there's usually enough more options that the HF bumps up a bit.
 
 
 
 

It's a difficult balance isn't it? If the fear of dropping a C causes you to split even .05 slower, that's 1.6 seconds over a 32 rounds field course.

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592

[MikeBurgess]

13 hours ago, PatJones said:

It's a difficult balance isn't it? If the fear of dropping a C causes you to split even .05 slower, that's 1.6 seconds over a 32 rounds field course.

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592
 

I would say its the hardest thing we do, 

In my experience speed and accuracy are pretty separate right up to a breaking point where the accuracy drops off almost instantly.

As an example the other day I was doing some work at 10yd on B8 targets, running 10 shot strings (9mm 1911) the difference in hits between a 9 second run and a 7.5 second run was nothing, but the difference between a 7.5 second run and a 7 second run was dramatic. 

The challenge in the low cap minor divisions is to find that breaking point and stay just on the good side of it for every target.

[PatJones]

I would say its the hardest thing we do, 
In my experience speed and accuracy are pretty separate right up to a breaking point where the accuracy drops off almost instantly.
As an example the other day I was doing some work at 10yd on B8 targets, running 10 shot strings (9mm 1911) the difference in hits between a 9 second run and a 7.5 second run was nothing, but the difference between a 7.5 second run and a 7 second run was dramatic. 
The challenge in the low cap minor divisions is to find that breaking point and stay just on the good side of it for every target.

Can you describe the difference in "feel" while shooting at those 3 speeds?

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592

[MikeBurgess]

7 minutes ago, PatJones said:

Can you describe the difference in "feel" while shooting at those 3 speeds?

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592
 

 

9 feels like I am seeing the sights really well, almost align and confirm, 

7.5 feels like just sending it as soon as the sights are there

7 feels like just sending it the instant the sights are there 

6 feels like rushing and the hits show it but not as bad as the change from 7.5 to 7 would have you assume 

 

My take away for me, on that day, was that my not rushed trigger press yields X accuracy, any trigger press that has an element of rushing in it has less accuracy, as one would expect, but the transition between the two is not linear.  

 

 

[shred]

21 hours ago, PatJones said:

It's a difficult balance isn't it? If the fear of dropping a C causes you to split even .05 slower, that's 1.6 seconds over a 32 rounds field course.
--

 

Yeah, it's too slow to focus on only shooting A's when you're actually shooting.  You have to train in advance to get your shots where they need to go and then do that when the buzzer goes.   That's where the top Minor shooters excel.  Sometimes on far/difficult targets the answer is 'just go for center available brown and take a few C's', but more often than not, they try for that upper-A or outside edge of the A-zone on a partial and can drive the gun precisely there, while a Major shooter can just blast at the center-brown and come out ahead in less time.