Honcho vs Nemesis Limited only

[Rnlinebacker]

Honcho is a good gun, but since they do not come with any mag......well that's a negative to me.  Atlas all the way.  Great customer service, excellent guns and ......as many magazines as you want tuned to your gun.  A simple opinion.

But you pay for them so they aren't included in the price lol

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[Hperea]

2 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

But you pay for them so they aren't included in the price lol

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I agree with you..you are correct but with Atlas I am getting as many as I want..paid for and I know that those mags will be tuned to my gun with no issues.  Honchos you do not get mags so you have to buy them and tune them...I  guess is an even but at least I know that Atlas did it an anything I can send them back and they fix it.

Remember that 2011 are great guns but they are famous for being magazine "selective"...if you know what I mean.

[Rnlinebacker]

I agree with you..you are correct but with Atlas I am getting as many as I want..paid for and I know that those mags will be tuned to my gun with no issues.  Honchos you do not get mags so you have to buy them and tune them...I  guess is an even but at least I know that Atlas did it an anything I can send them back and they fix it.
Remember that 2011 are great guns but they are famous for being magazine "selective"...if you know what I mean.

Mbx mags run right out the package and run with any 2011

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[Hperea]

11 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

Mbx mags run right out the package and run with any 2011

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I agree too.  I guess is a personal preference. In the end you and I know they, Honcho & Atlas, are excellent pistols.  You are not wrong with neither.  I just happen to be an Atlas fan for my personal experience with them, the pistol itself and the people at Atlas....customer service is second to none.  

[Pfiddy]

On 1/2/2020 at 5:03 PM, Rnlinebacker said:

Mbx mags run right out the package and run with any 2011

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This is not 100% true. I’ve had a few issues with and in looking for ways to resolve the issues myself I’ve found the problems are fairly common.  For the same price as the MBX you can get a mag that has received personal attention by the people who built your gun. This is true from many builders. For me that is the best way to go. 

[MVPFc]

MBX magazines are running 100% in Honchos without the added expense of paying for a company to “tune” them. Which actually makes them cheaper than the budget options currently offered. We have not tuned any of our test magazines and have not heard from a single Honcho owner about MBX’s not working. 
 

Because of this we are able to offer our customers the flexibility to use the mags they already have. They can also order the configurations they want directly from MBX including base pad colors and options. 
 

My best advice: Price out a Honcho in the race shop to match the set up of the other builder. You should quickly notice that there is more than enough savings to buy yourself an entire new set of magazines and maybe even a nice steak dinner as well. 

[Balakay]

Does the Nemesis have "Custom tool paths"?

[Matt1]

+1 for atlas. All you have to do is call them and they will answer any questions you have.
 
JJ borrowed a nemesis from his student in 2018 and won lim nats with it.
Pretty cool stuff

That’s a cool story bro but having a gun that runs is the important bit. The rest is up to the shooter.


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[EaZeNuTZ33]

The mag tuning wizardry is either overriding something with how the gun is built, or a sales gimmick. I have multiple friends that shoot for STI and shoot with their mags right out of the package. I shoot my Honcho with MBX mags right out of the package without adjusting or tuning anything. Now, are there small hiccups in manufacturing that can lead to a bad mag, or even a bad batch? Absolutely! I have 22 MBX mags in 140-170mm and two calibers (9/40), and no issues to date in multiple guns.

 

To add to this, when the new Gen 2 STI magazines came out, I wanted to try a dozen of them. No-one had them in stock, so I preordered 6 from Arnzen Arms and ordered 6 from Atlas when he contacted me after I inquired about some he had online. Atlas said they'd sell them to me AT COST, because in his words "I'm trying to sell them to you" after he was frustrated with them. I bought them, because my friend that shoots for STI said he'd get any issues I had lined out. I shot them with both Grams and TTI followers/springs and Dawson basepads with zero issues in two of my Hayes 2011s built on PT and STI frames, they also ran just as well in a Bedell, Tooth and Nail, STI Edge,... Atlas couldn't believe I hadn't done something else with the magazines to make them run. The conversation was cordial, and non-confrontational, but they were already trying to figure out what to do to get the mags to run with their guns, and I told him that if they didn't run and i figured out how to make them run...that I'd tell him how I did it. I didn't have to do anything to make them run tho. The only issue was not fitting a USPSA gauge with Dawson basepads. My MBX mags run the same, and come set up in full capacity while fitting a USPSA gauge and not requiring multiple orders for parts to swap into a parent tube. 

 

With a Honcho, you won't need any special mag tuning service. With MBX mags, if something is running wrong with them, MBX will make it right.

[MrPan]

2 hours ago, Matt1 said:

 

That’s a cool story bro but having a gun that runs is the important bit. The rest is up to the shooter.


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Yes so obviously the atlas nemesis worked....

[Leftylivesmatter]

Why do mags from Atlas have to be tuned? I’ve run 18 different MBX mags through my Honcho and all have been 100% out of the box. Change MBX springs out every year and go!

[Ssanders224]

I haven't "tuned" a mag in years. 

 

ESPECIALLY when it comes to Limited guns, a gun that is built right, with good ammo shouldn't be mag picky. My Limited Honcho (any a couple of other Limited guns I shoot) will run on my beat up old first gen STIs, new un-tuned STIs, and out of the package MBXs. I run it on MBXs just because. Heck, it will even run (.40) on my 38SC mags. The set of .40 MBXs I run have been GTG over two seasons now. I've never even changed the springs. 

 

I don't shoot Open in matches often, but I did at the MS Classic this year. I literally threw together an old STI big stick and a few 140s with used parts two days before (hand me downs from my wife) and the Honcho ran Hiccup free. 

 

I kind of cringe these days when I hear of people continually "tuning" on mags. It just shouldn't be all that necessary. Sure, sometimes things are out of spec, or manufactured incorrectly. But theses days I'd just send it back and have the manufacturer swap it for one in spec.  

 

 

[lroy]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:57 AM, Ssanders224 said:

I haven't "tuned" a mag in years. 

 

ESPECIALLY when it comes to Limited guns, a gun that is built right, with good ammo shouldn't be mag picky. My Limited Honcho (any a couple of other Limited guns I shoot) will run on my beat up old first gen STIs, new un-tuned STIs, and out of the package MBXs. I run it on MBXs just because. Heck, it will even run (.40) on my 38SC mags. The set of .40 MBXs I run have been GTG over two seasons now. I've never even changed the springs. 

 

I don't shoot Open in matches often, but I did at the MS Classic this year. I literally threw together an old STI big stick and a few 140s with used parts two days before (hand me downs from my wife) and the Honcho ran Hiccup free. 

 

I kind of cringe these days when I hear of people continually "tuning" on mags. It just shouldn't be all that necessary. Sure, sometimes things are out of spec, or manufactured incorrectly. But theses days I'd just send it back and have the manufacturer swap it for one in spec.  

 

 

 

I've got a few gen 2 STI's I put Gram guts in that cause hiccups in my honcho. No idea what the cause is, since I have no issues with the base gen 2's. 

[avastcosmicarena]

5 hours ago, lroy said:

 

I've got a few gen 2 STI's I put Gram guts in that cause hiccups in my honcho. No idea what the cause is, since I have no issues with the base gen 2's. 

So, you think stock gen 2 STI mags are good to go? Just asking, because I have a Honcho on order and was thinking about picking a few of these up. will probably grab at least 2 170mm MBX mags, but was thinking of getting a few STI gen 2 mags to have as cheaper backups/secondary mags...

[lroy]

3 hours ago, avastcosmicarena said:

So, you think stock gen 2 STI mags are good to go? Just asking, because I have a Honcho on order and was thinking about picking a few of these up. will probably grab at least 2 170mm MBX mags, but was thinking of getting a few STI gen 2 mags to have as cheaper backups/secondary mags...

 

I've had 0 issues with the gen 2's. It's only when I started playing with swapping the guts that I've had ftf. 

 

Gen 2 tube + tti basepad + gram guts = iffy performance. I've read others had success with this combo so it could just be user error.

Edited January 8, 2020 by lroy

[Nick_shoots_fast]

The honcho just looks like an ugly gun. I would probably go atlas tho. If the honcho looked cooler I would go PT but that’s cause I want to shoot open as I get older. 

[Leftylivesmatter]

https://ptrinity.com/product/honcho-race-shop/

[Hperea]

You guys are correct, but what we all seem to forget  is that the price of ONE MBX mag adding base pad, follower and ambi or not is $140( $132 +$ 8 shipping) for only ONE MAG.  Other manufactures....see name above is less....my point.

[vgdvc]

On 1/5/2020 at 8:00 AM, Pfiddy said:

This is not 100% true. I’ve had a few issues with and in looking for ways to resolve the issues myself I’ve found the problems are fairly common.  For the same price as the MBX you can get a mag that has received personal attention by the people who built your gun. This is true from many builders. For me that is the best way to go. 

Hello. Could you share your experience of what these common problems are and the fix for them? I'm looking to get some MBXs for my open pistol and assumed they should be my most problem free option

[zzt]

New MBX mags must have their springs conditioned before first use.  You accomplish that by fully loading the mags and letting them sit for a week or so.  I generally go two weeks.  When the follower in an empty mag does not rise so far above the feed lips, you are good to go.  After that it will run 100%.  If you must use them sooner, download the mag and DO NOT let it run dry.  MBX uses good springs.  Once conditioned they last seemingly forever.  I have one set of mags with the same springs and followers for three seasons.

 

STI Gen 2 mags (9/38) run 50/50.  After tuning the feed lips on the ones that don't run, it's 99.5/0.5.  Swapping out the guts for TTI springs, followers and base pads raises that to 100% and increases capacity.

 

For Limited shooters, I would go with MBX first, and/or Gen1 SVI tubes with TTI springs, followers and pads.  They run 100%.  For some reason the Gen1 SVI tubes do not like Grams guts.  No clue why.  STI Gen1 tubes are only good for dry fire, unless you enjoy re-tuning the feed lips every other time you drop them.  It doesn't matter what combination of Bolens, Grams, TTI or Dawson components you put in them.  It is the feed lips that are the problem.

[vgdvc]

15 minutes ago, zzt said:

New MBX mags must have their springs conditioned before first use.  You accomplish that by fully loading the mags and letting them sit for a week or so.  I generally go two weeks.  When the follower in an empty mag does not rise so far above the feed lips, you are good to go.  After that it will run 100%.  If you must use them sooner, download the mag and DO NOT let it run dry.  MBX uses good springs.  Once conditioned they last seemingly forever.  I have one set of mags with the same springs and followers for three seasons.

 

STI Gen 2 mags (9/38) run 50/50.  After tuning the feed lips on the ones that don't run, it's 99.5/0.5.  Swapping out the guts for TTI springs, followers and base pads raises that to 100% and increases capacity.

 

For Limited shooters, I would go with MBX first, and/or Gen1 SVI tubes with TTI springs, followers and pads.  They run 100%.  For some reason the Gen1 SVI tubes do not like Grams guts.  No clue why.  STI Gen1 tubes are only good for dry fire, unless you enjoy re-tuning the feed lips every other time you drop them.  It doesn't matter what combination of Bolens, Grams, TTI or Dawson components you put in them.  It is the feed lips that are the problem.

Thanks for the info. I need to tool up for 9major open in a Honcho (mags and loads) and don't mind spending a little more on MBX if they are the best option. My Brazos open runs excellent with gen 1 sti 38 super mags but don't want to play with 9mm spacers. I was hoping the sti gen 2  9/38 mags would work but after talking to Beven Gram I'm not so encouraged. Amongst other design/ manufacturer issues he also says his followers do not work properly in the gen 2 bodies

[zzt]

12 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

Amongst other design/ manufacturer issues he also says his followers do not work properly in the gen 2 bodies

 

TTI followers do after you gut off the slide lock tab.  I run a mixture.  MBX 155s and 170 usually.  I have three STI Gen 2 tubes with all TTI guts.  I use them for Classifiers with a mandatory reload, or any time I have to drop a mag in mud, dust or water.  I prefer the TTI base pads, because they come off the same way MBX pads do.  Toolless on and off and easy to remove for cleaning.  Buy a good mag brush and bring it with you.  You will need it in the wet months.

[lroy]

18 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

Thanks for the info. I need to tool up for 9major open in a Honcho (mags and loads) and don't mind spending a little more on MBX if they are the best option. My Brazos open runs excellent with gen 1 sti 38 super mags but don't want to play with 9mm spacers. I was hoping the sti gen 2  9/38 mags would work but after talking to Beven Gram I'm not so encouraged. Amongst other design/ manufacturer issues he also says his followers do not work properly in the gen 2 bodies

 

For what it's worth, I've had 0 issues with Gen 2 STI mags out of the box with my honcho, 9mm and 40.

[vgdvc]

13 minutes ago, lroy said:

 

For what it's worth, I've had 0 issues with Gen 2 STI mags out of the box with my honcho, 9mm and 40.

That is good to hear, thanks. Are you running them  stock? I picked up a couple from Brownells and after slightly modifying the feed lips per Beven Grams instructions they seem to feed well in dry runs. When I put his internals inside I can see where nose-diving starts to happen. 

[lroy]

1 hour ago, vgdvc said:

That is good to hear, thanks. Are you running them  stock? I picked up a couple from Brownells and after slightly modifying the feed lips per Beven Grams instructions they seem to feed well in dry runs. When I put his internals inside I can see where nose-diving starts to happen. 

 

Had no issues stock. When I switched to Grams Spring/Follower I began to have problems.

 

Would turn into a saltshaker when loading. I've let them sit loaded for a week or so and it seemed to have clear things up, mostly. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by lroy