Grip size too small?

[Siberian]

Greetings!

I am relatively new to pistols, have been shooting IPSC just over a year. The gun is CZ Shadowline, fully stock, except for fitted pre-B disconnector and minor internal clean ups. I can shoot it okay from time to time, but lack consistency. Took a class recently, and have been told the grip may be too narrow for my hand size (8.5 in surgical gloves, fairly long fingers). With two handed grip, my left palm sits mostly on the right finger tips and barely contacts the pistol. This leads to poor grip after 5-6 shots in rapid fire drills. Thinking about getting slightly thicker grip panels or maybe an upgrade to Shadow 2 - I find S1 / S2 much easier to control thanks to the checkering on front and back straps. My philosophy is to make the best use of the equipment I already have, but on the other hand one should not be running half-marathons in shoes that are a size too small...

 

[DKnoch]

I’d recommend Lok bogies: palm swell or the thicker profile. I do not have a shadow, but I use Lok’s on my Stock 2 and they are great. The bogies are aggressive enough to help your support hand get a good grasp when you squeeze hard. If that isn’t big enough for your hand, you can always try a Tanfo and see if those fit your hands better


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[anonymouscuban]

Another vote for the Lok Palm Swell Bogies. Best grips I've used. Add some grip tape to the front and back strap. Gun isn't going anywhere.

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[tdp88]

I agree with  the LOK Palm Swells but I prefer the checkered vs the bogies. The checkered keep the gun put in my hand just as well as the bogies but don't chew me up as bad during long dry fire or live fire sessions. 

[waktasz]

pics from the left side of the gun while holding it in one and two hands would help

[Tango]

I use skateboard tape and wrap the grip in areas that I want to be thicker. This way I can fully customize the shape of the grip to my hand. I found that I am adding more and more tape, because a thicker grip works well for my hands (but the gun looks really ugly).

 

One thing I noticed is to make the bottom of the grip thicker than the top part: make it thinner near the beaver tail. This helps pushing my hands up, for a higher grip. Really helps with recoil control.

 

[Tango]

32 minutes ago, Tango said:

I use skateboard tape and wrap the grip in areas that I want to be thicker. This way I can fully customize the shape of the grip to my hand. I found that I am adding more and more tape, because a thicker grip works well for my hands (but the gun looks really ugly).

 

One thing I noticed is to make the bottom of the grip thicker than the top part: make it thinner near the beaver tail. This helps pushing my hands up, for a higher grip. Really helps with recoil control.

 

here are pictures: 

[Siberian]

On 10/29/2019 at 4:44 PM, waktasz said:

pics from the left side of the gun while holding it in one and two hands would help

 

Let's try...

 

[Siberian]

^ That amount of skateboard tape won't work in IPSC Production division

 

Not quite sure about Lok palm swell bogies: I looked them up, the manufacturer says the overall grip width with the bogies is 1.44'' = 36.6 mm. Stock grip is ~27-28 mm wide. I also noticed front to back length of the grip is slightly (1-2 mm) shorter on the Shadowline vs my daughter's Shadow 1.

 

I have ordered thicker aluminium panels and some grip tape for now, they should arrive in a week.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Siberian

[bimmer1980]

5 hours ago, Siberian said:

 

Let's try...

 

Thats to small, same here. You should put big palm swell grips on and maybe 2-3 layers griptape on the front and backstrap, so you get some space for your support Hand, to make contact with the gun.

edit: For IPSC only 1 layer is allowed. I did it anyway.

Edited November 1, 2019 by bimmer1980

[tanks]

The other option is to get a CZ Tactical Sport and shoot Limited. It has a huge grip.

[perttime]

On 11/1/2019 at 9:55 AM, bimmer1980 said:

Thats to small, same here. You should put big palm swell grips on and maybe 2-3 layers griptape on the front and backstrap, so you get some space for your support Hand, to make contact with the gun.

edit: For IPSC only 1 layer is allowed. I did it anyway.

 

IPSC allows a bit of overlap:

 

APPENDIX E3a: Production Divisions - Boundaries of Tape on Grips
The maximum external surface area to which tape can be applied in a single layer (unavoidable minor overlapping up to 2 cm permitted), is illustrated in the diagrams below:

 

Tape can only be applied within areas indicated by the dotted lines, which includes the front and rear sections of the grip. However, tape cannot be used to disable a grip safety, nor can tape be applied to any part of the slide, trigger, trigger guard, or on any lever or button.

Edited November 2, 2019 by perttime

[Siberian]

Do you think Shadow 2 would be a better fit?

TS is a whole other level of expense. I like being able to share mags etc with my kid.

[bimmer1980]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:52 PM, Siberian said:

Do you think Shadow 2 would be a better fit?

TS is a whole other level of expense. I like being able to share mags etc with my kid.

 

With palmswell grips or other big ones, sure. It´s a bit longer front to backstrap. 

Or Tanfos with big grips.

[IronArcher]

I have the same issue with my Tanfo, even with palm swell grips.

 

Ended up putting a grip sock on it.... I’d like to add something under the sock on the front strap, but it gets me closer

 

 

 

P.S. keeping your thumb on the safety will give you more room.

 

[IronArcher]

With a 10mm Allen wrench on the front strap

 

No sock, no wrench

 

 

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[arkadi]

Before you start buying new guns, and Shadow 2 grip is fairly small BTW, may I suggest that a competent action shooter will examine your grip in-person once again?

 

By reproducing your grip exactly like it is photographed I'd say that's a flimsy grip, no surprise the gun shifts a lot. It seems to me, that you're holding the gun in-front and side-to-side instead of working front to back with the strong hand.I bet, is that if you stay in you stationary shooting position holding the gun with just one hand and someone would rack the slide - it would just slip from your grip.

 

You might want to start by getting the feeling of total control with strong hand only.

 

LOK Palm Swell Boggies and original SP-01 Shadow rubber grips are excellent choice. I run both of them on CZ custom open guns; long fingers. The biggest grips are of the original CZ TS and Stock II / III large frame wood grips. You may want to shoot them first before reaching conclusion.

 

[lroy]

I used to prefer a smaller grip because it made me think I could really surround it with my hands and handle it well. 

 

I've switched to Preferring a larger grip. The thinking is to have the most flesh contact possible with the sharp biting texture of the grip instead of my baby smooth girl hands. 

 

As always try both though. You should be able to pick up some used grips fairly cheap. I definitely wouldn't go out and buy a new gun solely for that reason. That's why they're adjustable.

 

That said, if you're just looking for a reason for a new gun then go for it. I've convinced myself of a lot things too. Lol 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by lroy

[anonymouscuban]

Hey guys. So is there an objective measure to know if the grip is too large or small for you hand other than feel?

Something like the position of your index finger relative to the trigger or trigger guard.

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[AmosM223]

While we are on the topic of grips too small/large...

 

What is most important when gripping with the dominant hand, more grip and contact on the front and back strap, or more grip and contact on the sides? For example, I’ve been running the thin bogies for a while now, and I notice that there is sometimes a little bit of an “air gap“ between my dominant palm and grip sides. 

[anonymouscuban]

While we are on the topic of grips too small/large...
 
What is most important when gripping with the dominant hand, more grip and contact on the front and back strap, or more grip and contact on the sides? For example, I’ve been running the thin bogies for a while now, and I notice that there is sometimes a little bit of an “air gap“ between my dominant palm and grip sides. 

Not the expert here but I would say the grips are too small. You want as much contact between the grip and your hand as possible.

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[Hardmix]

I am really surprised that there is not more information available on proper gun fit. Every sport I play the cue, bike, club etc....have a fitting process for optimal performance.

[perttime]

1 hour ago, Hardmix said:

I am really surprised that there is not more information available on proper gun fit. Every sport I play the cue, bike, club etc....have a fitting process for optimal performance.

 

I have no idea about fitting a cue or club, but there are many preferences for fitting a bike, depending on what kind of a bike it is, what sides of "performance" you want to emphasize, and what works for the quirks of your physique.

[carolina_boy1990]

I like a big ole donkey grip, something I can really bear down on. Best grip I've felt was on a buddy of mines Edge. Its a custom grip. It looks like "dear Lord what is that" but it feels like money when you shoot it.

[Siberian]

On 1/10/2020 at 3:06 PM, arkadi said:

Before you start buying new guns, and Shadow 2 grip is fairly small BTW, may I suggest that a competent action shooter will examine your grip in-person once again?

 

By reproducing your grip exactly like it is photographed I'd say that's a flimsy grip, no surprise the gun shifts a lot. It seems to me, that you're holding the gun in-front and side-to-side instead of working front to back with the strong hand.I bet, is that if you stay in you stationary shooting position holding the gun with just one hand and someone would rack the slide - it would just slip from your grip.

 

You might want to start by getting the feeling of total control with strong hand only.

 

LOK Palm Swell Boggies and original SP-01 Shadow rubber grips are excellent choice. I run both of them on CZ custom open guns; long fingers. The biggest grips are of the original CZ TS and Stock II / III large frame wood grips. You may want to shoot them first before reaching conclusion.

 

It worked, as long as I paid attention to the grip. I switched the original thin aluminium grips to thicker M-Arms, big improvement.

 

Last Black Friday, I found a good deal on Shadow 2 Optics Ready. Only shot a couple of steel matches with it, but the fit is night and day: the hump on the back strap made a huge difference.

 

My daughter runs Shadow 1, but it seems Shadow 2 is a much better fit for her as well. She tried my S2 and someone’s Tanfo Limited Custom, both were close, about 40-50% reduction in grip force required to achieve the same level of stability vs S1. If she crushes the S2, it is rock solid.

 

Once the range road is drivable, we will run side by side tests with a timer.

 

Leupold DPP 6 MOA is in the mail also.