Mission - soft and flat shooting AR15

[chicoredneck]

I’m planning a new build and am experimenting with trying to make the lightest and most neutral shooting AR15 in my collection that is still light enough to comfortably shoot from the shoulder. I get selecting a low mass carrier, a muzzle break, an adjustable gas block, and that the heavier the rifle is, the less recoil it will have.

 

What I’m lost on is the buffer system. I can’t figure out if a light weight buffer or a hydronic buffer is better. Also, what spring system? Do I go with a heavier return spring or lighter?

 

Lastly is gas system length. I know 18” with a rifle length gas system is popular for its combination of portability and soft shooting. Is a 20” barrel with a rifle gas system even softer shooting? I would think it is as it seems like less gas would need bled due to the longer dwell created by the increased barrel length.

 

Also, TFB did extensive testing of muzzle breaks. It looks like the SJC Titan was the most effective in taming recoil, even over the JP tank break. What the TFB test don’t show is how neutral it keeps the muzzle. Some breaks cut recoil but don’t dampen muzzle rise much. Some over compensate and actually push it down. My goal is to keep the mizzle as still as possible.

[Matt1911]

SJC Titan is the best brake I've ever used. 

That with a LW BCG and lightweight JP buffer got my rifle shooting flat as paper using 18" rifle gas without an adjustable gas block. 

[Adamj]

I have a full JP build 18" rifle length gas system, adjustable gas block, lightweight bcg,  and their silent caoture spring system. All that combined makes it the absolute softest ahooting rifle I've ever fired. 

[chicoredneck]

Are you guys using a rifle or carbine length buffer?

[Adamj]

I started out with a rifle length tube, but JPs silent caoture spring system is carbine length so I had a delrin spacer. I have since switched to an XLR carbine length tube and simply took the spacer out. 

[chicoredneck]

18 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

SJC Titan is the best brake I've ever used. 

That with a LW BCG and lightweight JP buffer got my rifle shooting flat as paper using 18" rifle gas without an adjustable gas block. 

 

Regular springs with the light weight buffer?

[chicoredneck]

1 minute ago, Adamj said:

I started out with a rifle length tube, but JPs silent caoture spring system is carbine length so I had a delrin spacer. I have since switched to an XLR carbine length tube and simply took the spacer out. 

 Thanks!

[DavidSeavey]

JP 18" light contour rifle gas barrel kit with their 3 port titanium comp, adj gas block, steel low mass carrier, and SCS buffer system shocked me how little motion it had first test firing. now that i've been shooting open i've thought about trying out their tank brake but i cant imagine it being all that much better. 

 

keep in mind that different people's grip and technique will control motion slightly differently with the same components.

[Adamj]

33 minutes ago, DavidSeavey said:

JP 18" light contour rifle gas barrel kit with their 3 port titanium comp, adj gas block, steel low mass carrier, and SCS buffer system shocked me how little motion it had first test firing. now that i've been shooting open i've thought about trying out their tank brake but i cant imagine it being all that much better. 

 

keep in mind that different people's grip and technique will control motion slightly differently with the same components.

I'm switching to open and have been thinking of using the tank break, but came to the same conclusion that surely it can't enough difference to justify $100. 

[louu]

Just do push ups, it's free. 

 

Seriously 

[chicoredneck]

Anyone using the superlative arms  gas block? I like the idea of the gas bleed off, but am concerned the vented gas may be to near where I’m holding the rifle.

[Blockader]

4 minutes ago, chicoredneck said:

Anyone using the superlative arms  gas block? I like the idea of the gas bleed off, but am concerned the vented gas may be to near where I’m holding the rifle.

 

I have 2 rifles with the Superlative Arms block. Both have been superlative. You can set it to vent gas from block or to operate like a conventional adjustable gas block. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Blockader

[TennJeep1618]

The combination of a quality (tunable) comp, adjustable gas block, low mass carrier, and the JP SCS buffer system (with lightest weight spring) is the best combination I've found.  Especially if you use a rifle length gas system.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, Blockader said:

 

I have 2 rifles with the Superlative Arms block. Both have been superlative.  

 

    

[chicoredneck]

Alright, so I’ve started amassing parts.

So far I’ve decided I’m going with an: ARperformance 18” Rifle gas barrel

A whiskey arms carrier

JP SCS with the spring pack

Superlative adjustable gas block

Either SJC Titan or precision hypertap break ( can’t make up my mind on this one).

I already have an upper, bolt,  gas tube, pins, carrier parts and 13” hand guard.

 

Am I missing anything?

[Blockader]

Before buying the SCS you might try running it first with an empty buffer and a rifle spring. If you use a carbine buffer in a non carbine receiver extension make sure to use a spacer (like quarters) to keep the gas key from hitting the receiver when it operates. By using just enough quarters for minimum key clearance and only enough gas to lock bolt open on last round you can keep the buffer from ever reaching the end of the tube. That's what I found to give the flattest impulse anyhow. SCS is good too. I assume this is a game gun of course. 

[DesertTortoise]

Alright, so I’ve started amassing parts.
So far I’ve decided I’m going with an: ARperformance 18” Rifle gas barrel
A whiskey arms carrier
JP SCS with the spring pack
Superlative adjustable gas block
Either SJC Titan or precision hypertap break ( can’t make up my mind on this one).
I already have an upper, bolt,  gas tube, pins, carrier parts and 13” hand guard.
 
Am I missing anything?

Mine is set up with the same barrel and other equivalent parts. It runs like a laser, the dot doesn't move at all.

It shoots just under 1 moa at 200 with Hornady ELD and under 1.5 with 55 grain hoser ammo at 200

[Midwest3Gunner]

I use an Odin Works Zulu with a empty carbine buffer and spring. With the secondary spring in the tube, it's a pretty smooth impulse.

[chicoredneck]

1 hour ago, Blockader said:

Before buying the SCS you might try running it first with an empty buffer and a rifle spring. If you use a carbine buffer in a non carbine receiver extension make sure to use a spacer (like quarters) to keep the gas key from hitting the receiver when it operates. By using just enough quarters for minimum key clearance and only enough gas to lock bolt open on last round you can keep the buffer from ever reaching the end of the tube. That's what I found to give the flattest impulse anyhow. SCS is good too. I assume this is a game gun of course. 

I’m intrigued by this. Preventing the buffer from bottoming out would be introducing the constant recoil system, which is great for recoil control. I’m not following the idea completely though. If I run a carbine buffer with a rifle tube and spring, where would the spacers go? Do you keep any weight in the carbine buffer?

[chicoredneck]

3 minutes ago, chicoredneck said:

I’m intrigued by this. Preventing the buffer from bottoming out would be introducing the constant recoil system, which is great for recoil control. I’m not following the idea completely though. If I run a carbine buffer with a rifle tube and spring, where would the spacers go? Do you keep any weight in the carbine buffer?

 I just realized, the spacer would be at the rear of the extension tube. I re-read your post. Just to clarify, you are running a  rifle length extension, standard weight , spring and an empty carbine buffer? About how many quarters do you find you need to properly compress the spring to prevent bottoming out?

[Blockader]

I'm running an A5 receiver extension, but rifle would work too. I tried a bunch of different springs I had already and ended up liking the Taccom rifle spring best, which I believe is 10% reduced. They were all pretty close though. Yes the carbine buffer is completely empty. 

 

With a adj block the buffer is already barely touching the back of the receiver extension, so the difference this setup makes is fairly minor honestly. But also cheap. It only works with the ammo you set it for. If you set it for weak PMC bronze and then stick proper M193 in the buffer will bottom out. So ammo specific. 

 

it also moves fast, which some might feel as not soft. I prioritize flat shooting and reducing dot movement. 

 

it's cheap and easy to try is the main thing, you probably have everything you need already. The SCS is sweet too, As is the armaspec. 

 

To find the number of quarters, put some in, stick in the spring and buffer, use a towel rod to push down buffer till it bottoms out without hitting the lower reciever. Add one to be sure. 

 

the space between the buffer bottoming out and the bolt catch still working is pretty small. 

 

 

[Blockader]

Also, if you launch a dowel rod through your skull doing this, my real name is Oprah Winfrey and I live in Chicago. You can just contact my lawyers directly. 

[MemphisMechanic]

8 hours ago, chicoredneck said:

 I just realized, the spacer would be at the rear of the extension tube. I re-read your post. Just to clarify, you are running a  rifle length extension, standard weight , spring and an empty carbine buffer? About how many quarters do you find you need to properly compress the spring to prevent bottoming out?

 

If you run a rifle tube and a carbine buffer, your gun has too much stroke and the gas key can crash into the upper the moment you have much gas dialed in at all, or change to ammo that’s just a tiny bit hotter.

 

He’s suggesting you put enough spacers in there to prevent this contact and then adjust to keep the buffer from contacting them. Barely.

 

And the spring has nothing to do with bottom out. When the buffer runs into whatever is behind it, the spring wrapped around the buffer still has 1/4” to 1/2” before it goes solid. The buffer does the bottoming out instead. 

 

(Even the long heavy  *.308 rifle length* spring I run in my 9mm carbine doesn’t go solid or coil-bind before the buffer hits the back of the tube.)

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[Blockader]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Barely.

 

 

Key word. Unless you decide you won't run the gun dry to bolt hold open anyway and adjust the gas to short stroke. Than its slightly more than barely. Still need spacer though of course. 

 

Be careful?

[nheiny13]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:37 PM, chicoredneck said:

Alright, so I’ve started amassing parts.

So far I’ve decided I’m going with an: ARperformance 18” Rifle gas barrel

A whiskey arms carrier

JP SCS with the spring pack

Superlative adjustable gas block

Either SJC Titan or precision hypertap break ( can’t make up my mind on this one).

I already have an upper, bolt,  gas tube, pins, carrier parts and 13” hand guard.

 

Am I missing anything?

Get the Hypertap and let us all know how it works