Are we getting the right value out of our membership fees?

[nasty618]

14 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

The thing that blows my mind about how USPSA does business today is their total reliance upon Practiscore while they provide them ZERO compensation or assistance in supporting that effort.

 

Excellent points in that whole post.

 

13 hours ago, euxx said:

 I have to say - not supporting local US crew (well, almost local) does not look good... It looks as "screw you" approach.

 

And seeing the developer's perspective is also very helpful.   I am sure this could be perceived as some level of abuse of intellectual property.  Although PractiScore mission statement does say - "always will be free to use".... so this practice would not be illegal... but maybe a good example of "unethical"?  

 

Perhaps modify the mission statement from "PractiScore scoring apps and the website will always be free" to include a "for personal use" clause?  And then offer a paid subscription to organizations that chose to use these extra features to help generate any revenue? Maybe offer tiered subscriptions for different levels of organizations? but i dont know enough about the market depth and i am sure you have already thought about these options in depth.

 

This was a good educational exchange, thank you both for that.

 

 

[euxx]

3 hours ago, nasty618 said:

And seeing the developer's perspective is also very helpful.   I am sure this could be perceived as some level of abuse of intellectual property.  Although PractiScore mission statement does say - "always will be free to use".... so this practice would not be illegal... but maybe a good example of "unethical"?

 

It is more of a clash between PractiScore being a free community service (profited on donations, ads and now optional monetary value-add benefits to members) vs. USPSA being a business. The latter wants to protect their brand - so the statement we own all USPSA-related data (including membership data and all match results).

 

If it were up to me, I'd have said - if you want it, go get it yourself, it is available and here is API to get it. But Ken is being a nice guy and doing community service at his expense. Hence you've got those match upload files for USPSA downloadable from PractiScore web site.

 

Anyhow, for a business a freely available service is a money saver. I don't expect them to change anything there, other than building their own system. But then again, I'm not an USPSA member, so I'm not benefiting from that policy either way.

[nasty618]

15 minutes ago, euxx said:

PractiScore being a free community service (profited on donations, ads and now optional monetary value-add benefits to members)

 

That's actually another great point - crowd sourcing/crowd funding is a good thing... i think i've made a donation in the past,.  I am going to go ahead and send a few more bucks as a token of my appreciation for all the hard work and for having two excellent tools that use on a regular basis -  the Competitor app and the scoring app. Didnt have much use for the Matchbook app, didnt find it giving any benefit over using the site and was a little less intuitive for me as a user.

Edited November 29, 2018 by nasty618

[pjb45]

At the moment, Practiscore is a monopoly.  There is a significant barrier to entry into the market.  It has ~100% of the market share.  It can set a price.  USPSA is totally dependent upon it.

 

I have no beef with Ken or Practiscore.  The product is good and is evolving.

 

I am not confident in the statement(s) surrounding the cost and USPSA relationship has been cleanly articulated.  Seems a lot like the steel challenge payment.  Very few actually talk the real numbers.

[pjb45]

Our Strategic Initiatives are:

 

• Grow the USPSA Brand

• Grow the membership

• Return clear value to our members

• Educate our membership in all facets, at all levels

• Raise positive public awareness about our sport

• Develop clear, unambiguous rules and policies

• Re-establish involvement as a fundamental aspect of our sport

• Reclaim our roots for the next generation

• Develop new forms of practical shooting competition

• Actively pursue Junior involvement

• Drive consistency through every level of the organization

• Deliver our services better, faster, cheaper

• Give our customers more than they expect

• This is OUR organization

 

This is pure BS fluff.  Strategic Initiatives (yes I have read Porter etc) must have metrics.  They must be measurable.  The BOD should hold the President accountable for meeting the Strategic Initiative; Monthly, Quarterly and Yearly.  That is how real businesses do it.

 

[L3324temp]

I have no issue paying the USPSA fee. But at the same time I rarely shoot a USPSA sanctioned match. The vast majority of my weekly matches are non-sanctioned “USPSA Style” matches and I shoot EVERY weekend.


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[Derrick-508]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:46 AM, Nathanb said:

I’d like to see an overhaul of the classifier system to reflect real time calculations of new high hit factors. They have the data. It’s programmatic. 

 

An ro course takes so mhch effort to put together right now that it will make you want to throw up. As said above that needs fixed. 

 

I’d also like to see club contacts and range officer communications go out in targeted emails. Rulings etc should be shared or scenarios and how to score them. 

 

Standardizing and accepting an approved wsb method should be looked at.  You see dozens of ways that wsb are done up it would be nice to have an official method. One club uses PowerPoint one uses sketch up another uses trident.  

Agree with standardization!

[Seanziegler]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:25 PM, pjb45 said:

Our Strategic Initiatives are:

 

• Grow the USPSA Brand

• Grow the membership

• Return clear value to our members

• Educate our membership in all facets, at all levels

• Raise positive public awareness about our sport

• Develop clear, unambiguous rules and policies

• Re-establish involvement as a fundamental aspect of our sport

• Reclaim our roots for the next generation

• Develop new forms of practical shooting competition

• Actively pursue Junior involvement

• Drive consistency through every level of the organization

• Deliver our services better, faster, cheaper

• Give our customers more than they expect

• This is OUR organization

 

This is pure BS fluff.  Strategic Initiatives (yes I have read Porter etc) must have metrics.  They must be measurable.  The BOD should hold the President accountable for meeting the Strategic Initiative; Monthly, Quarterly and Yearly.  That is how real businesses do it.

 

You mean “reclaim our roots for the next generation” is fluff ?

[rowdyb]

If you goals dont have a time component, a measurement of success/completion and or be articulated into an achievable path of action then they are just fluff.

Edited December 14, 2018 by rowdyb

[waktasz]

On 12/3/2018 at 6:56 PM, L3324temp said:

I have no issue paying the USPSA fee. But at the same time I rarely shoot a USPSA sanctioned match. The vast majority of my weekly matches are non-sanctioned “USPSA Style” matches and I shoot EVERY weekend.


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I don't know how these things exist. I have no desire to shoot "Bob's semi-tactical Pistol Match" using his accompanying rulebook.  THAT is the value of USPSA. That I can go to a match anywhere in the US and get the same sport with the same rules.

[rowdyb]

52 minutes ago, waktasz said:

 

I don't know how these things exist. I have no desire to shoot "Bob's semi-tactical Pistol Match" using his accompanying rulebook.  THAT is the value of USPSA. That I can go to a match anywhere in the US and get the same sport with the same rules.

I feel the exact same way. If you use paper scoring I will not attend your match. If you use a different site than practiscore for registration and results i will not attend your match. If your match does not upload to uspsa, steel challenge or whatever org I will not shoot your match. If your match is something you made up I will not shoot it more than once unless it is really and truly something as a one time, just for fun deal.

[rowdyb]

58 minutes ago, waktasz said:

I don't know how these things exist.

you've obviously never shot much in the south...

[pjb45]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

If you goals dont have a time component, a measurement of success/completion and or be articulated into an achievable path of action then they are just fluff.

NICE

[pjb45]

2 hours ago, Seanziegler said:

You mean “reclaim our roots for the next generation” is fluff ?

I have no idea of your meaning?

[Seanziegler]

1 hour ago, pjb45 said:

I have no idea of your meaning?

I was just being facetious. Disregard me.

[pjb45]

20 hours ago, Seanziegler said:

I was just being facetious. Disregard me.

now i understand.  facetious is always welcomed.  i was a little slow. 

[rustychev]

I would feel better about the value Im getting with more support for the area matches supported by less money sending just a few to the world shoots,

[L3324temp]

 
I don't know how these things exist. I have no desire to shoot "Bob's semi-tactical Pistol Match" using his accompanying rulebook.  THAT is the value of USPSA. That I can go to a match anywhere in the US and get the same sport with the same rules.

I suppose it depends on what your goals are. Mine are to get out of the house for a few hours every weekend and stop thinking about work/life and have fun. These matches provide that for me.

They are also more common and closer than official USPSA matches.

If the rules changed from week to week or shooter to shooter I would feel differently.


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[Kiwishoot]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:25 AM, pjb45 said:

Return clear value to our members

Someone's been reading "How to be a successful manager by using the right buzzwords in 10 easy steps"

[mjmagee67]

I have no issues with the value of USPSA. Everytime I shoot a match I giggle at the cheap fun it is.....

 

As far as Practiscore goes. It's really a fantastic tool. I'd definitely but the maker a beer or two and a steak if he wanted. I hope he gets enough compensation for it. 

 

BUT if Practiscore pulled the trigger, I'd be fine with paper and an Excell spread sheet. I wouldn't want to but I would. 

[pjb45]

On 12/26/2018 at 5:48 PM, Kiwishoot said:

Someone's been reading "How to be a successful manager by using the right buzzwords in 10 easy steps"

NOPE!

30 years of Practicing Drucker, Deming and Crosby and by turning around 30 business, building applications that last more than 5 years and keeping organizations from going bankrupt.  

[shred]

USPSA has given money to fund Practiscore (a 'donation' as the FB post puts it)

 

[IVC]

USPSA is like any other sports organization. We pay nominal fees and in exchange we have an "organized structure." While the organization has a goal of developing the sport, it's really up to us, the participants and the volunteers. The USPSA provides support and logistics. 

 

I would compare it to USA Hockey (of which I've been member for decades). They sanction all adult leagues and provide guidance and certifications for the coaches and officials. For kids, they provide rules, regulations and sanction matches, but the work is still done by the dedicated individuals who work within framework. We, the people, make sports and teach kids, organizations provide us with a structure. 

 

This is NOT a business. Expecting USPSA to set up milestones and quantifiable goals is naive - chasing PKIs or business metrics would do nothing to expand the sport. Signing up "X" new members or holding "Y" local matches is meaningless if the members don't stick around or matches aren't attended. The mission of the organization is to support the growth of the sport that comes from us, the members. The USPSA doesn't work for us in the traditional sense where we get something in exchange for our membership fees, the USPSA provides the framework and structure within which we can play and attract new members. 

 

Just my 2c. 

[euxx]

50 minutes ago, IVC said:

This is NOT a business.

 

Not according to uspsa president

[Sarge]

50 minutes ago, euxx said:

 

Not according to uspsa president

True