Quest for the best non-mag PCC Optic

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

I know there are a few threads on this already but i wanted to make this a separate post. This is my unofficial review of 4 different optics and my experience in their use. This was done over about a 5 month period. All of these were mounted on my JP GMR15. 

I ran the 4 following optics basically in a quest to find the best non-magnified optic for PCC:

EoTech

Vortex Huey UH1 

Leupold LCO

Sig Romeo 4M
 

I wanted to preface this by stating that my opinion on red dots or non magnified optics is that I'd rather have something such as a reticle etc  to help with ranging at distance. So the 65 MOA circle on an eotech will cover a 65" man from head to toe at 100...something like that. And for circular plates I feel like it helps. If the circle is superimposed over the plate youre gtg at most ranges, unless you have hold over and hold under to consider. And for fast paper targets on bay style matches, well, just put 2 in the brown as they say lol. It could also be argued that the 65 MOA circle is just too busy and slows your reaction time down by providing your eyes and brain excess to process compared to a single red dot. But with a red dot on some far far targets, you're just holding off into space, and dont really know where your rounds are going to hit. I like to have some sort of reference. 
So with that being said, Ill break it down by optic.
EOTECH: $475 or so
I really do like the eotech reticle as a non-magnified.They fixed the zero shift issues etc so thats not a problem. What is a problem to me is the clarity of the reticle. It looks all pixelated like you're playing nintendo 64 duck hunt. The reticle itself is useful especially if you had to use it for ranging some further shots. Or some super tight no shoots. I decided i was gonna hunt for something better. So after reading a bunch of reviews i decided to go with the newer vortex UH-1.
Vortex UH1. $449
After reading reviews of "the eotech killer," and how great this optic was i decided to get it. Again i wanted something similar to the reticle on the eotech so i could use it to range. The build quality was good and robust similar to the eotech. The reticle quality was awful. It was easily as bad as the eotech. All pixelated and fuzzy. Well, that got packaged back up and sent back. I told myself, i should have stopped f*#king about and got the leupold to begin with. So...
Leupold LCO $650-700
Having some leupold optics I thought for sure this would be the right decision. Buy once cry once. And just pay the coin for quality Leupold products. I have the mark 6 1-6 power, and a couple delta points. They are amazing products. I was pretty sure i made the right call this time. Although this is just a red dot, I figured Id give it a try. No circular 65-68MOA circle reticle on it. I received it and fired it up. I could not believe it. This was worse than any of them. The projecting unit within the optic is rectangular. Somehow the rectangular outline of this is illuminated and projected on the glass as well as the dot. Whats even more annoying about this is that the rectangular shape that is projected in the glass is off axis. So its tilted sideways on the glass. And it doesnt matter what lighting or setting. I tried em all. What surprised me was how terrible this was, given its a leupold. Not the quality id expect coming from them. Furthermore their delta points are fantastic non magnified dots. So this one got sent back as well. Whoever designed this optic as well as whoever looked at it and was like "looks good to me," should get flogged to death. It was that bad. I was starting to think i should have just kept the eotech.
SIG SAUER ROMEO4M $450
So i was pretty skeptical of this one. Sig is pretty new to the optics game and i wasnt too sure about it. But my friend had one, and i could try it out without wasting more time and money on some BS. Surprisingly this was the clearest most crisp reticle by far. I mean it looks like its etched on the glass its almost that clear. It was better than all of them by leaps and bounds. And its got a reticle pretty much exactly the same as the eotech. So thats what i went with. ROMEO4M hands down winner out of those 4. I mean it was crazy how much better it was than any one of them. Ive been using this for about 3 months straight now and couldnt be happier. 

[TRUBL]

I love the 65 MOA circle....but EoTEch and Vortex fail miserably on grainy POS reticles. I ended up doing Holosun....in a few different flavors. It's funny how the vortex fan boi's shut their mouths after looking thru these optics.

 

The ever popular 510C has the 65MOA circle and a 2MOA Dot.......you can run circle/dot, circle only or dot only......I tun them on manual mode and it is super bright. I am colorblind, so I lean towards green over red......but in this case Red has been fine with all the holosun product I've run. This optic is perfect for the AR or MPX......a little too high for the scorpion or ruger pc carbine........about $275 or so

 

The 507C is stupid light and great for both PCC and pistol.....about the same size as a fast fire. What i like about this sight is that it has a 30MOA circle. again, you can run circle/dot, circle or dot only. On steel.....I am super tempted to run the circle only. Also.....run on manual mode....these things a bright. You can run this sight right on the rail of a ruger pc carbine or scorpion. I understnad these are under a recall right now.....intermittently shutting off......I run 2 of them, one a ruger and one on 45ACP AR15.....with zero issues.......about $300-$330

 

The 503C is tube type sight about the same size as an aimpoint.......has all the features of the 510C I like it. I run the low mount on a Ruger PC Carbine and CZ Scorpion. use the included high mount for AR's and MPX......BTW, the 503C is very close to the Romeo 4(and is probably made by holosun) and can be had for under $200

 

All the above sights have a solar panel on them....not sure how that works.....but I have dot's that I've not turned off since April and they are still bright. I think.....they may have a motion feature that shuts them off and turns them off.

 

Prior to running these optics......I was Cmore railway all the way.......they now collect dust on the shelf.....and haven't had to buy a battery all year!!!

Edited September 3, 2018 by TRUBL

[TonytheTiger]

I pulled a Sig 4m off a prize table this year and wasn't expecting much. I was very pleasantly surprised by it. It's an awesome dot.

[mikeAZ]

I don't like looking thru a tube, limits my target acquisition....  I don't need to hunt for a target if I can see all the background and target vs looking through a tube...... I'll stick with my C-Mores.... The interchangeable modules cinch the deal for me....I've tried them all...

[RAVAGE88]

TRUBL, what do you like about the 65 MOA circle? I’m running the circle with dot and tempted to go dot only, have you found the circle useful?

 

Thanks,

MB

[TRUBL]

13 hours ago, RAVAGE88 said:

TRUBL, what do you like about the 65 MOA circle? I’m running the circle with dot and tempted to go dot only, have you found the circle useful?

 

Thanks,

MB

I really like it for steel as I can anticipate the shot running across the plate better. 

Your eyes automatically find the center of a circle so I've never had an issue losing the dot. Also, I've found I'm just as fast and more accurate with the circle as when it fits inside the USPSA target I know I am on......to be honest, with pistol, I always tended to use the sight as a reference (target, front sight.....knowing the rear sight was lined up)........I guess it's kinda the same here.....but hard to put in words.

[TRUBL]

14 hours ago, mike NM said:

I don't like looking thru a tube, limits my target acquisition....  I don't need to hunt for a target if I can see all the background and target vs looking through a tube...... I'll stick with my C-Mores.... The interchangeable modules cinch the deal for me....I've tried them all...

The 507C and 510C are not tubes......only the 503C. And with the 510C.....I typically remove the outer guard and the view is as big as the CMORE

I've set the Cmores aside for MUCH better technology and NOT having to keep a shitpot full of batteries on hand anymore.

My experience with Cmores.....and it's been oh about 25 years or so, is that anything under a 4MOA dot is not a dot, but more of a tiny slash.......not so with the Holosun 2MOA. 

 

I've never been a fan of 2MOA dots until Holosun came along, now will not use any thing bigger.

[Patrick Scott]

I used to love the view from behind a Cmore slideride, but after running a Holosun 510 Im sold on that optic. The view is almost as good as a Cmore, but the 510 doesnt chew through batteries, is waterproof, more durable and gives you some reticle options. The only down sides I see(when compared to the Cmore) is that its heavier and the dot shape is not as perfect to my eyes.  I tried a lot of tube style optics from Aimpoint, Vortex, ect. Never liked tubes for USPSA. 

[RaylanGivens]

I have a 510c on my PCC and love it, but it has some artifacts...

 

I'm running the single dot...  If I turn the dot up bright, I see four lines...  one at each 90 degrees around the edge of the sight...  They are near the edge of the screen, not right next to the dot...

 

           !

     -    o    -

           !

 

Similar to the above diagram...  Shot a match Sunday in the bright sun and saw what looked like a reflection of a circuit board on the screen...

 

Am I turning the dot up too bright?  Do you guys have these issues?

 

[stick]

15 hours ago, mike NM said:

I don't like looking thru a tube, limits my target acquisition....  I don't need to hunt for a target if I can see all the background and target vs looking through a tube...... I'll stick with my C-Mores.... The interchangeable modules cinch the deal for me....I've tried them all...

+1 I'll stick with my C-mores also!  No tubes and it doesn't restrict your field of view.  The interchangeable dots are a plus also.

[Acer2428]

Quote

saw what looked like a reflection of a circuit board on the screen

 

Not just you... Thought maybe it was a defective unit. I tried the 'elite'/green version and had that issue w/ backlight. Could clearly see the rectangular circuit board, but the 'green' was Holosun's own design, so was hoping the normal 510c would be different. I have one on the way.... sad to hear that, but oh well. 

 

How do you remove the hood on the 510? 

[TRUBL]

15 minutes ago, Acer2428 said:

How do you remove the hood on the 510? 

4 screws......you'll see when you get it.

[TRUBL]

47 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

I have a 510c on my PCC and love it, but it has some artifacts...

 

I'm running the single dot...  If I turn the dot up bright, I see four lines...  one at each 90 degrees around the edge of the sight...  They are near the edge of the screen, not right next to the dot...

 

           !

     -    o    -

           !

 

Similar to the above diagram...  Shot a match Sunday in the bright sun and saw what looked like a reflection of a circuit board on the screen...

 

Am I turning the dot up too bright?  Do you guys have these issues?

 

I've not seen the circuit board reflection.......yet........interesting.

I do know that on the 65moa circle there are 4 lines.......I've never run the dot by itself, wonder if that is part of the lines on the circle that show up when running that bright.....again....interesting.

 

Not sure if you guys running the cmores understand this or not.......the 507C and 510C are NOT tube sights. If you think think they are.......mmmmmmaybe you haven't looked at one yet?

[3gunnuts]

The 510C is gaining a lot of following in Open as it makes it easier to find the dot especially from awkward positions. On PCC I find the outer ring distracting and the 2moa dot not ideal for USPSA. Currently running the C-More with an 8moa dot.  Would go with a smaller dot like 4moa for a PCC specific match. It really comes down to prefence and I have an astigmatism for the the 65 moa rings give a halo effect.

[Tampa-XD45]

On 9/2/2018 at 9:43 PM, devilsdenguns said:

I know there are a few threads on this already but i wanted to make this a separate post. This is my unofficial review of 4 different optics and my experience in their use. This was done over about a 5 month period. All of these were mounted on my JP GMR15. 

I ran the 4 following optics basically in a quest to find the best non-magnified optic for PCC:

EoTech

Vortex Huey UH1 

Leupold LCO

Sig Romeo 4M

Thanks for the hands on review.  65 MOA circle is too big for me. The 507C 32 MOA circle seems to be a good all around size for USPSA & Steel for my eyeballs.

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

Yea! Absolutely! I figured since I used em I may as well write something for it. I did a pretty good deep dive on the leupold. I just posted the summarized version. So if you or anyone else wants it I can email it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

2 hours ago, 3gunnuts said:

The 510C is gaining a lot of following in Open as it makes it easier to find the dot especially from awkward positions. On PCC I find the outer ring distracting and the 2moa dot not ideal for USPSA. Currently running the C-More with an 8moa dot.  Would go with a smaller dot like 4moa for a PCC specific match. It really comes down to prefence and I have an astigmatism for the the 65 moa rings give a halo effect.

 

I'm running the 510C on two PCCs and two Steel Challenge guns.  For me, they work great.  Generally use the circle to frame the area I want to hit, but concentrate on the dot when it's a critical shot.

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

On 9/3/2018 at 9:04 PM, mike NM said:

I don't like looking thru a tube, limits my target acquisition....  I don't need to hunt for a target if I can see all the background and target vs looking through a tube...... I'll stick with my C-Mores.... The interchangeable modules cinch the deal for me....I've tried them all...

how close to your eye are you mounting it? if you mount it further from your eye it may help. Like as far on the upper receiver. 

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

On 9/3/2018 at 6:10 PM, TonytheTiger said:

I pulled a Sig 4m off a prize table this year and wasn't expecting much. I was very pleasantly surprised by it. It's an awesome dot.

Yea man i know! I was super skeptical...but its an awesome little optic.

[pjb45]

Thanks for the review.  I have a H510C.  I like it but I wish it was brighter in the AZ sun.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

13 hours ago, pjb45 said:

Thanks for the review.  I have a H510C.  I like it but I wish it was brighter in the AZ sun.

 

Are you running it in solar or battery mode?  Battery mode can be substantially brighter...

 

ETA: to switch between the two, hold down the "+" key for 3 seconds.

Edited September 7, 2018 by STIboy

[TRUBL]

4 hours ago, STIboy said:

Are you running it in solar or battery mode?  Battery mode can be substantially brighter...

bingo!!

 

[pjb45]

Thanks guys.  That seemed to do the trick.

 

[Matt1911]

I was running a Vortex Sparc AR but switched to a Sig Romeo 3 to shave some weight and also get a better field of view. 

[GeorgeH]

I just installed  H510c (green) on my pcc, i cant wait to try it out this coming Saturday.