Using small rifle primers in PCC/Minor?

[Roy T]

Small rifle may have issues is some striker fired guns (usually when the triggers have been exchanged) small rifle usually works in every thing else. See what your gun will handle and there you have it.

[bwikel]

On 6/2/2018 at 10:50 AM, L9X25 said:

I used SR exclusively for thousands of rounds with NO problems, with no leakage.  

This! All I run is CCI SRP in all my pistol loads, no issues. 

[usmc1974]

On 6/2/2018 at 10:50 AM, L9X25 said:

I used SR exclusively for thousands of rounds with NO problems, with no leakage.  

+1 I have no reason to waste money on spp primers. I use LRP for 44-40' s and my 45 LC cowboy gun smokeless or black powder.

[L9X25]

59 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

+1 I have no reason to waste money on spp primers. I use LRP for 44-40' s and my 45 LC cowboy gun smokeless or black powder.

 

During the last big Primer scare (late 90's?) I purchased a box of WLR since they were the only primers available.  I loaded 100 and they seemed to have slightly different dimensions

and caused issues with my 10mm based pistols.  They seemed to load with a "high primer" profile and my pistols did not have enough hammer energy to reliably ignite them.  I considered the experiment a failure and did not try them again.  

[RaylanGivens]

How in the world would one specific brand of powder cause pierced primers?

 

Take out the extra Hiperfire springs...

[chevrofreak]

2 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

How in the world would one specific brand of powder cause pierced primers?

 

Take out the extra Hiperfire springs...

I have no explanation, but it is the only powder I have experienced this with.  3n38 with a much hotter load in my CK and Glock open guns have perfect primers, but with N350 I was getting piercing.  To have it also happen in a minor PF load of N350 baffles me.  

[MemphisMechanic]

6 hours ago, L9X25 said:

 

During the last big Primer scare (late 90's?) I purchased a box of WLR since they were the only primers available.  I loaded 100 and they seemed to have slightly different dimensions

and caused issues with my 10mm based pistols.  They seemed to load with a "high primer" profile and my pistols did not have enough hammer energy to reliably ignite them.  I considered the experiment a failure and did not try them again.  

 

Small pistol & rifle primers are identical in dimensions.

 

Large rifle & pistol are slightly different sizes. Your issue is normal, but does not apply to running small rifles in 9mm.

[SDL]

FYI. I had some primer flow and changed to a new firing pin and it went away.

[L9X25]

3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Small pistol & rifle primers are identical in dimensions.

 

Large rifle & pistol are slightly different sizes. Your issue is normal, but does not apply to running small rifles in 9mm.

 

I agree, but I was responding to statement that claimed otherwise.

[usmc1974]

15 hours ago, L9X25 said:

 

During the last big Primer scare (late 90's?) I purchased a box of WLR since they were the only primers available.  I loaded 100 and they seemed to have slightly different dimensions

and caused issues with my 10mm based pistols.  They seemed to load with a "high primer" profile and my pistols did not have enough hammer energy to reliably ignite them.  I considered the experiment a failure and did not try them again.  

Winchester are hard primers, Federal primers are softest best for gammer guns...lol

Edited June 4, 2018 by usmc1974

[Steve RA]

I'd think the Federals would be best for striker fired weapons as  1911s - hammer fired - will ignite anything I've ever tried in them.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Steve RA
left letter out

[Patrick Scott]

Thanks folks, as I said in the OP it was mostly a curiosity thing. That said if SPPs dry up again for some reason at least I won't have any worries buying SRPs, Im pretty sure the my PCC gun with a Hipefire in it will set them off  Not too worried about my pistols since I dont play with them really anymore. 

[BlackBuzzard]

1 hour ago, Steve RA said:

I'd think the Federals would be best for striker fired weapons as  1911s - hammer fired - will ignite anything I've ever tried in them.

 

 

True......even my Dillon 650 will set them off.

[GeneBray]

I have no explanation, but it is the only powder I have experienced this with.  3n38 with a much hotter load in my CK and Glock open guns have perfect primers, but with N350 I was getting piercing.  To have it also happen in a minor PF load of N350 baffles me.  

Strongly suspect your issue is a caused by combination of trigger system, primer, powder, and barrel (interior dimensions and/or lead). Extra springs on trigger system impart more energy to hammer. Primer cup material hardness and thickness may be different within a brand by type (I.e., SR, SP, and AR primers). Powder— each powder has different pressure over time curves and I’m certain the curves also vary by cartridge as well as variations base on brand of case and manufacturing variations within and between different brands of cases. Lead affect pressure curves as well. Is you case/bullet touching lands of several thousandths off the lands?

Does the problem exist with one specific brand of case or all?

Suggestions: 1) reduce energy in hammer. 2) change powder 3) check effect of COL on problem. 4) use same type of bullet from different manufacturers.

May have missed in the thread. Did you tell us caliber, COL, bullet brand, weight, and style, and brand of case.


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[chevrofreak]

28 minutes ago, GeneBray said:

Strongly suspect your issue is a caused by combination of trigger system, primer, powder, and barrel (interior dimensions and/or lead). Extra springs on trigger system impart more energy to hammer. Primer cup material hardness and thickness may be different within a brand by type (I.e., SR, SP, and AR primers). Powder— each powder has different pressure over time curves and I’m certain the curves also vary by cartridge as well as variations base on brand of case and manufacturing variations within and between different brands of cases. Lead affect pressure curves as well. Is you case/bullet touching lands of several thousandths off the lands?

Does the problem exist with one specific brand of case or all?

Suggestions: 1) reduce energy in hammer. 2) change powder 3) check effect of COL on problem. 4) use same type of bullet from different manufacturers.

May have missed in the thread. Did you tell us caliber, COL, bullet brand, weight, and style, and brand of case.


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9mm, mixed brass, and seeing it with different headstamps. S&B SPP, 4.4gr of N350 with a Berry's plated 115 RN at 1.135"

[GeneBray]

9mm, mixed brass, and seeing it with different headstamps. S&B SPP, 4.4gr of N350 with a Berry's plated 115 RN at 1.135"

Missed addressing firing pin. Length and the head of the pin for burrs, rough spots, etc. 4.4 grains is quite a bit lower than than published loads for 115 plated bullet using N350. Using too little powder can be as bad as too much. Have you thought about using N340? Hope I’ve been a little help.


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[LowSpeedHighDrag]

2 hours ago, GeneBray said:

4.4 grains is quite a bit lower than than published loads for 115 plated bullet using N350. Using too little powder can be as bad as too much. Have you thought about using N340? Hope I’ve been a little help.
 

 

That was my first reaction.  I'm using 4.9 gr. with a 124 gr. bullet, and I think the minimum charge from the Vihtavouri reloading data is more like 5.9 gr. with the 115 gr. bullet.

An undercharge can produce a detonation, rather than a controlled burn.  Someone at our club did that, and managed to blow up the barrel and slide.  Perhaps a more limited version of a detonation is the cause of the primer flow?  Try sticking with the recommended loadings (sorry, OP, not you).

Edited June 4, 2018 by STIboy

[chevrofreak]

3 hours ago, GeneBray said:

Missed addressing firing pin. Length and the head of the pin for burrs, rough spots, etc. 4.4 grains is quite a bit lower than than published loads for 115 plated bullet using N350. Using too little powder can be as bad as too much. Have you thought about using N340? Hope I’ve been a little help.


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Firing pin is a brand new Wilson S7 tool steel piece.  

 

I know I am well under book load, but a lot of PCC loads are.   The bullet really isn't that far above the powder, but I may try shortening up my OAL until it is slightly compressed to see what happens.   I am not expecting much, because I was also getting pierced primers in my Glock 9major open gun at major PF with a 124gr bullet. 

[GeneBray]

Firing pin is a brand new Wilson S7 tool steel piece.  
 
I know I am well under book load, but a lot of PCC loads are.   The bullet really isn't that far above the powder, but I may try shortening up my OAL until it is slightly compressed to see what happens.   I am not expecting much, because I was also getting pierced primers in my Glock 9major open gun at major PF with a 124gr bullet. 

With two guns having similar problems, now I am wondering about charge weight and scales. Based on your replies to questions, I am certain I know the answer but just want to check off another possible cause. Scales properly calibrated and checked with test weights or your calibration weights, and then press throw weight double checked.


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[chevrofreak]

57 minutes ago, GeneBray said:

With two guns having similar problems, now I am wondering about charge weight and scales. Based on your replies to questions, I am certain I know the answer but just want to check off another possible cause. Scales properly calibrated and checked with test weights or your calibration weights, and then press throw weight double checked.


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I verify charge weights with 2 scales when setting my powder drop.  They're never more than .1gr different.  I have a Hornady scale and a Frankford Arsenal scale.  I've never had any problems with any other powder; even loading 9major.

[GeneBray]

I verify charge weights with 2 scales when setting my powder drop.  They're never more than .1gr different.  I have a Hornady scale and a Frankford Arsenal scale.  I've never had any problems with any other powder; even loading 9major.

Curiouser and curiouser....

Running out of potential problems. Let me sleep on it and will see if I can think of anything else......


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