Using small rifle primers in PCC/Minor?

[Patrick Scott]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you guys are running small rifle primers?  I have been under the impression that due to the harder cup of rifle primers, minor loads don't have enough pressure to properly seal the cup to the case causing gas leakage that ends up eating the breech face.  Has anyone noticed this or other issues running rifle primers? 

[GeneBray]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you guys are running small rifle primers?  I have been under the impression that due to the harder cup of rifle primers, minor loads don't have enough pressure to properly seal the cup to the case causing gas leakage that ends up eating the breech face.  Has anyone noticed this or other issues running rifle primers? 

Used SP/SR in my Production pistol. Never saw any sign of gas leakage around primer cups. And, no change in chrono data.


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[L9X25]

I used SR exclusively for thousands of rounds with NO problems, with no leakage.  

[Steve RA]

I use SRPs in 9mm, .45ACP (SP cases) and .223/5.56 as you only need to stock one primer size.  Also use Clays (Australian) in 9mm and .45ACP and H-335 in .223 so only have to stock two powders.  Life is easier when you simplify !

[L9X25]

1 hour ago, Steve RA said:

I use SRPs in 9mm, .45ACP (SP cases) and .223/5.56 as you only need to stock one primer size.  Also use Clays (Australian) in 9mm and .45ACP and H-335 in .223 so only have to stock two powders.  Life is easier when you simplify !

 

Exactly.  The majority of what I loaded was Major power factor and that necessitates rifle primers.  One the rare occasion that I wanted to load 9mm or .40 cal minor I would just use the rifle primes and, while unnecessary, they worked perfectly there too.  

 

 

[chevrofreak]

I use SRP due to a Hiperfire trigger and N350 causing occasional pierced primers.  I also get more consistent velocity with the light loads of slow powder I am using.  

Edited June 2, 2018 by chevrofreak

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

2 hours ago, chevrofreak said:

I use SRP due to a Hiperfire trigger and N350 causing occasional pierced primers.  I also get more consistent velocity with the light loads of slow powder I am using.  

Sorry, would you expand on the issue with the Hiperfire trigger and N350.  Why would the Hiperfire trigger lead to more pierced primers than other triggers?

[L9X25]

10 minutes ago, STIboy said:

Sorry, would you expand on the issue with the Hiperfire trigger and N350.  Why would the Hiperfire trigger lead to more pierced primers than other triggers?

 Hiperfire triggers, because of their design, have higher hammer energy that most any other trigger.  They have the usual mainspring, and they have 2 coil springs which initially counteract the mainspring and then pivot to where they supplement the impact energy.

[Flatland Shooter]

8 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

 Hiperfire triggers, because of their design, have higher hammer energy that most any other trigger.  They have the usual mainspring, and they have 2 coil springs which initially counteract the mainspring and then pivot to where they supplement the impact energy.

 

So far I've not had problems with SPP and a Hiperfire trigger.

 

I use SRP for my Open gun shooting major with N-350.  But why would they be needed for minor PCC loads?

[jkrispies]

10 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

But why would they be needed for minor PCC loads?

I’m mainly lurking in this discussion but I’ve found SRP easier to find for purchase than SPP.  It would be nice to know if they’ll work okay.  

[Steve RA]

The best way to find out is to use some in your gun/guns.

[stick]

6 hours ago, Steve RA said:

I use SRPs in 9mm, .45ACP (SP cases) and .223/5.56 as you only need to stock one primer size.  Also use Clays (Australian) in 9mm and .45ACP and H-335 in .223 so only have to stock two powders.  Life is easier when you simplify !

I like the idea of only stocking one primer.  I might need to load some for my PCC and see how they do.

[Steve RA]

One thing you need to consider is what sort of handgun do you plan on using them in ???   I've only got 1911s and have never had a problem with ignition in them.  Some of the striker fired ones may not work as well.  Still, the best test is to try a few.  I'd think they would work OK in a PCC but you would want to try them in every thing you load for.

[chevrofreak]

2 hours ago, STIboy said:

Sorry, would you expand on the issue with the Hiperfire trigger and N350.  Why would the Hiperfire trigger lead to more pierced primers than other triggers?

As others have said, the increased hammer fall energy.  N350 powder has had issues with pierced SPP in my Glock open gun at major power factor, and now in my AR9 at minor power factor.  I've never experienced pierced primers with any other powder, which is odd.  I switched to SRP to alleviate that problem, which has worked, and I get more stable velocity with my light 4.4gr N350/115gr plated 9mm minor PCC loads 

[L9X25]

1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said:

  But why would they be needed for minor PCC loads?

 

They are not "needed" for minor loads at all. 

 

However, you can purchase small rifle primers for the same price as small pistol and they can be used for major or minor, they are universal.  Small pistol primers can generally only be used for minor loads.  If you load major and minor, and buy components in bulk, would you want to buy one primer that can be used for anything, or one that is only usable in some loads?    The only real reason to choose small pistol is because they have a softer cup and can ignite with less force from the firing pin.  If you have sufficient energy to ignite rifle primers, any advantage to the small pistol is eliminated.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

14 hours ago, chevrofreak said:

As others have said, the increased hammer fall energy.  N350 powder has had issues with pierced SPP in my Glock open gun at major power factor, and now in my AR9 at minor power factor.  I've never experienced pierced primers with any other powder, which is odd.  I switched to SRP to alleviate that problem, which has worked, and I get more stable velocity with my light 4.4gr N350/115gr plated 9mm minor PCC loads 

Sounds like it's time to switch out the Hiperfire from the PCC.

[lordnikoncanon]

Sounds like it's time to switch out the Hiperfire from the PCC.

I’m lost. What would you replace it with?
I use 124gr coat 3.8 grain of tite group no issues


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[lordnikoncanon]

This thread needs pic


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[Steve RA]

Of what, exactly ???

[lordnikoncanon]

Of what, exactly ???

Holes in primers


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[Steve RA]

Ok.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

4 hours ago, lordnikoncanon said:

I’m lost. What would you replace it with?
I use 124gr coat 3.8 grain of tite group no issues


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Probably an Elftmann trigger.  Doesn't have the extra springs to assist the hammer hitting the firing pin.

 

This thread mentioned problems with SPPs using a slow powder like N350, which is the powder I use in one of my PCCs. A fast powder like TiteGroup doesn't seem to be an issue, but unfortunately, one PCC really needs slow powders; fast powders regularly caused inconsistent velocities.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

23 hours ago, chevrofreak said:

I use SRP due to a Hiperfire trigger and N350 causing occasional pierced primers.

Should have asked before, but is it all SPPs or only specific brands?

[chevrofreak]

2 hours ago, STIboy said:

Should have asked before, but is it all SPPs or only specific brands?

I only use S&B SPP these days.  I got a smoking deal and ordered 30k of them. 

 

The cases on the left are what my pierced primers looked like.  They werent horrible, but I still don't want it happening.   The two on the right are what my primers look like after switching to S&B SRP.  The two in the middle are unpierced SPP.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

36 minutes ago, chevrofreak said:

I only use S&B SPP these days.  I got a smoking deal and ordered 30k of them. 

 

The cases on the left are what my pierced primers looked like.  They werent horrible, but I still don't want it happening.   The two on the right are what my primers look like after switching to S&B SRP.  The two in the middle are unpierced SPP.

Ouch, I see your point.  Definitely don't want the pierced primers to continue.  Good you found a solution.