shooting 8" steel at 100 yds with PCC

[Blaster]

At ohio 3g and PCC championship today PCC shooters had to hit 5 8" steels at 100 yds So a buddy of mine [a good shot] with aJP-15 could not hit them so what kind of accuracy groups with what load are PCCs capable of?

[Sarge]

What optic? 100 yards with a 9mm carbine would require knowing where the carbine shoots at 100 yards and most don't know that info since 99% of PCC's never see anything beyond 20-25 yards. I remembder hearing shooters talk about this after the lucas oil pcc shoot last year. Nobody was prepared for long range targets and had trouble figuring it out on the fly.

[MikieM]

My 2 cents is this: The accuracy of the gun, and your friends ability to hit 8 inch targets at 100 yards, are two different things.

 

[emjbe]

The AZ PCC championships had 4" steel at about 70 yards (see stage 3 below).  You'll see in the video that stage being shot with a WWII era 9mm and irons.  So even the older guns are capable of pretty good accuracy.

 

Stage 7 has plate racks at about 80 and 70 yards.  There was an option to do the plates from the top of the green stairs and I didn't see anyone choose that option even though it would have been about 20 yards closer.

 

 

[Flatland Shooter]

In my quest to get a PCC that shoots decent groups at UML distances, I went through six barrels before I found one that would consistently hit an 8" plate at 100 yards.  I blew through a lot of ammo during the search in bullet weights from 98 gr to 160 gr, each loaded to several different PFs.

 

I had to quickly rule out coated and plated bullets.  Jacketed bullets in the 121 to 125 gr range running a bit hotter gave the best results.

 

When testing, I used an 18x scope, bipod and sandbags.

 

So my opinion is that using an untested (at 100 yards or more) barrel with random ammo, your good shooter would need luck rather than skill.

[MikieM]

58 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

When testing, I used an 18x scope, bipod and sandbags.

So my opinion is that using an untested (at 100 yards or more) barrel with random ammo, your good shooter would need luck rather than skill.

 

Well said, Flats. 

[Blaster]

flats what barrels did you try and which was best and what bullet and powder works best thanks

[Old3GNR]

A J-P barrel has the accuracy to hit 8" plates @ 100 yards.  The issue is knowing bullet drop and having a good optic.  I shot a steel match that had IPSC targets @ 90,100, and 110 yards off-hand.  With a C-More I had a hard time even seeing the target as they blended with the berm.  I did get 14 of 15 hits.  The stage was won by a young lady shooting as PCC with a 1-4 scope.  

[Les Snyder]

both of my 16" PCC barrels are inexpensive... one a short leade PSA and the other an unknown manufacture from MAS Defense... both 1/10 and nitrided... both will shoot  4" or better (5 shot) at 100yd with 1.5 x 16 TA44 ACOG with Federal 147... RRA NM trigger... off a hard rest

Edited May 7, 2018 by Les Snyder

[Flatland Shooter]

4 hours ago, Blaster said:

flats what barrels did you try and which was best and what bullet and powder works best thanks

 

Tried to PM you but your email inbox is full.  Let me know when it has some room.  Thanks.

[BartCarter]

About a week ago, I took a carbine course at TPC.  Shooting my CMMG Guard with their 8.5" barrel and a Vortex Venom, at the end of the course I was able to consistently hit a 10" plate at 100 yards when I aimed at the top of the plate.  This was shooting supported from different positions.  A friend was shooting his new MPX with a dot and had no trouble.  With magnification, should be easier.

 

I was using off-the-shelf Fiocchi 115, FMJ

Edited May 7, 2018 by BartCarter
added ammo description

[Blaster]

Flats you can PM me now Blaster [got rid of 10 years of messages]

[emjbe]

23 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

In my quest to get a PCC that shoots decent groups at UML distances, I went through six barrels before I found one that would consistently hit an 8" plate at 100 yards.  I blew through a lot of ammo during the search in bullet weights from 98 gr to 160 gr, each loaded to several different PFs.

 

I had to quickly rule out coated and plated bullets.  Jacketed bullets in the 121 to 125 gr range running a bit hotter gave the best results.

 

When testing, I used an 18x scope, bipod and sandbags.

 

So my opinion is that using an untested (at 100 yards or more) barrel with random ammo, your good shooter would need luck rather than skill.

 

I guess I got lucky ... my first pcc is an ATI 9mm that hits about 10 MOA consistently, so not as good as yours, but acceptable for what I shoot.  I'm working on loads for a JP upper that seems to be about 6 MOA using bayou bullets.  I tried target hollow points and several other plated bullets but they all seemed to jam more frequently than the bayou 9mm 124g bullets in both PCCs.  So I use the coated bullets exclusively in my PCC for better reliability.  

[Flatland Shooter]

42 minutes ago, emjbe said:

 I'm working on loads for a JP upper that seems to be about 6 MOA using bayou bullets. ..........  So I use the coated bullets exclusively in my PCC for better reliability.  

 

That's impressive.  I've got shotguns that will pattern better than my PCCs with coated bullets.

[Startingover]

This makes feel better about spending the extra $ on the Rainier Arms barrel, providing it lives up to its reputation.

[Flatland Shooter]

13 hours ago, Startingover said:

This makes feel better about spending the extra $ on the Rainier Arms barrel, providing it lives up to its reputation.

 

Definitely not going into a lightweight build.  Surprised that the barrel weighs 1# 13 oz.

[Startingover]

2 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

Definitely not going into a lightweight build.  Surprised that the barrel weighs 1# 13 oz.

It's kinda chubby like me

[emjbe]

On 5/6/2018 at 7:18 PM, emjbe said:

The AZ PCC championships had 4" steel at about 70 yards (see stage 3 below).  

 

Correction on this - shooting from the car to that 4" steel was about 45-50 yards in stage 3.  

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you are shooting at 100 yards use 124 grain bullets and a 1-3 or better scope. Know where your bullets hit at different distances and use 140-145PF loads. That has worked for me in the past at The Texas Carbine match even with a Mech Tech. For good groups use good bullets. Thanks, Eric

[chevrofreak]

My Ruger PC9 will smack a 8" steel plate consisently at 100 with my 124gr RMR flat point FMJ and 3.8gr Titegroup load, just by aiming at the top of the plate.  It groups about 1" at 25 yards with that load.    My girlfriend tried doing the same thing and didn't hit the plate one single time.   The shooter makes as much difference as barrel and ammo. 

[Todd7446]

On 5/6/2018 at 9:51 PM, Sarge said:

... most don't know that info since 99% of PCC's never see anything beyond 20-25 yards. 

 

I think that depends on whether the shooter is coming from a USPSA or 3G background with their PCC.

[Todd7446]

On 5/6/2018 at 9:25 PM, Blaster said:

At ohio 3g and PCC championship today PCC shooters had to hit 5 8" steels at 100 yds So a buddy of mine [a good shot] with aJP-15 could not hit them so what kind of accuracy groups with what load are PCCs capable of?

 

I know one of the guys who shot PCC at this match, and smoked this stage, ran Hornady HAP bullets through his MPX.  He's also spent quite a bit of time in load development for accuracy and runs PCC in many/most 3G matches now instead of a rifle.

Also, I think that plate rack was closer to 80 yards than 100.

[rowdyb]

i walked over to our club's rifle range and shot at the round plates at 100 y. (mpx, 147gr bullets going 870fps) with a burris ff3 i had to aim at the top edge of the plates. once i found that i could hit them at will.

 

i then tried to hit the full size rectangles at 200 and that took a fair bit of firing for effect. i was holding about 2 feet high to hit the plate.

[MemphisMechanic]

3 hours ago, Todd7446 said:

 

I know one of the guys who shot PCC at this match, and smoked this stage, ran Hornady HAP bullets through his MPX.  

 

I think we’ll see more of this as the existense of  PCC-only matches means more long range shooting.

 

I think my personal response would turn out to be keeping two loads on hand:

 

1. A coated bullet load good for a couple of inches at 25 yards, which is used 95% of the time in USPSA and Steel Challenge. Something cost effective.

 

 2. An FMJ load that’s been partiently developed and is more accurate for ranges well beyond 25 yards.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Flatland Shooter]

Add a third load for the occasional spinner.  I carry a handful of 160 gr Ibejiheads loaded to about 152 PF just for those evil things.