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kellyn

The next 3 Gun controversy! Detachable Shotgun Magazines come to SHOT 2018

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Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns.  I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly.  Currently this would place the shooter in Open division.  So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads?  Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?   

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5 minutes ago, kellyn said:

Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns.  I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly.  Currently this would place the shooter in Open division.  So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads?  Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?   

Keep doing what we have been.

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18 minutes ago, kellyn said:

Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns.  I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly.  Currently this would place the shooter in Open division.  So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads?  Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?   

screw that-box fed = open.

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1 hour ago, kellyn said:

Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns.  I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly.  Currently this would place the shooter in Open division.  So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads?  Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?   

Box mag fed= Open.  If match directors want to have Heavy Open for the pump shotgunners shooting .308 and .45's, that's up to them.

 

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Who says they'll ever get such things to work? It seems like maybe T&N and Dissident have magazines sorted out for guns actually designed for box mags, but only after years of those guns screwing the pooch.

 

We should probably give them 15 years to figure it out before we start thinking about rule changes.

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We have allowed box fed shotguns in our tactical classes since 2010 at the Oklahoma City Gun Club. We only require that it hold no more than division capacity at any time. It has never caused any trouble, and to date it has never been a deciding factor in the outcome of a match. To put this in perspective, we started the red dots allowed in tac limited or as we call it tac non magnified. It is simple little innovations that help grow the sport. Also as non useful as some of these Shotguns have become, I would willingly welcome a social shotgun that actually is short and handy and magazine fed!......at least it will fit inside the bed of a regular sized pick up truck!

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I like that Mossberg.  Hell, if I had one I would shoot open just to use it.

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Either wise! But I was thinking mainly lengthwise. Some of these "tactical" shotguns are longer than an on shore casting rig for surf zone fishing. I once saw a young athlete ask to borrow one for the pole vault competition!!:wacko:

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8 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

Who says they'll ever get such things to work? It seems like maybe T&N and Dissident have magazines sorted out for guns actually designed for box mags, but only after years of those guns screwing the pooch.

 

We should probably give them 15 years to figure it out before we start thinking about rule changes.

T&N and Dissident don't have nearly the level of engineering support and capital behind them as Mossberg and Remington.  They'll get it figured out much quicker than that.

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Back in my duck hunting days I dreamed of a belt fed shotgun.  Now there's a story that needs to be told.

 

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2 hours ago, 1981Shooter said:

T&N and Dissident don't have nearly the level of engineering support and capital behind them as Mossberg and Remington.  They'll get it figured out much quicker than that.

I don't know about that, factory new Remington, Mossberg and Ruger rifles often fail to function out of the box. And they've been making some of the product lines for decades.

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On 1/26/2018 at 6:37 PM, kellyn said:

Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns.  I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly.  Currently this would place the shooter in Open division.  So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads?  Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?   

 

Just like the carry optics discussion, this won't be a popular option with the open shooters. I like Kurts reply very much.

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I'd be more excited to see that family of double-stack magazines shoehorned into a semi-auto platform... that would rock.

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15 hours ago, Blaster said:

we will see jerry shooting one this year

a pump gun?

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No dot, no comp, not open.  Pistols can have detachable mags, as can rifles and not be in open, why should shotguns be different.

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2 minutes ago, Stlhead said:

No dot, no comp, not open.  Pistols can have detachable mags, as can rifles and not be in open, why should shotguns be different.

Every pistol and rifle used have detachable mags that's a horrible argument. And the why is it's in the rules right there with the dot and comp.

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I strongly believe that tube magazimes in shotguns are going the way Winchester 1873s and 1892s did.

Aficionados and people familiar with the old systems will continue using the. Military and police will start switching over to detachable magazines in shotguns because speed loading and switching ammo types with them is so much easier to train to a huge number of recruits not familiar with firearms. Tube shotguns will slowly become the Dodo bird of "social shotguns".

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3 hours ago, Garmil said:

Every pistol and rifle used have detachable mags that's a horrible argument. And the why is it's in the rules right there with the dot and comp.

 

No, revolvers do not have detachable magazines, nor do many rifles.  The poor bastards in California don't have detachable mags on many of their rifles. Why pick on shotguns with detachable magazines?  I could give two shits if people use magazine fed shotguns in limited and scope tac, but to say that they should be excluded because the current rules say so is short sighted and illogical.  Detachable magazines are not a new invention, they are not even controversial.  A detachable magazine for a shotgun is no more "Open" than a detachable magazine for a rifle or a pistol.  "Open" is everything, the other divisions are defined by what features they allow, and they allow detachable magazines on two of the three guns.  Why not allow it for all three.  The main reason people don't want detachable magazines in the other divisions is that they don't want to buy a new shotgun after dumping too much money into what they already use, especially when the detachable mag shotguns have been so lackluster in the past.  Those arguments should not hold any water.  If the feature (detachable magazine) is too much of an advantage for any but open, then we should make all detachable magazines open.

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how many revolvers do you see shooting 3 gun? or rifles that do not use a detachable magazine?  California has bullet buttons they are still detachable magazines.

 

the rest of that is just your personal opinion and id guess youre in the minority.

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My opinion, we have let the tacops rules get out of line.

SG tubes that hold 13+, shell placement that is, in the loading port but not "in"  the port,  drums in rifles,  muzzle supporting devices that are not "bipods", triple/quad coupled mags that are "monopods", wings on base pads, etc.

Racing is racing, and if you aren't pushing the envelope, you probably aren't winning.

But you also have to have a rule set that delineates the divisions or you end up with essentially one.

The guys who can afford to throw down the $$ (may not win) but will discourage beginners who can't/wont, drop the big bucks just to try out a new hobbie. When they see many with $10K+ of stuff, compared to their $2k.

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20 hours ago, Garmil said:

how many revolvers do you see shooting 3 gun? or rifles that do not use a detachable magazine?  California has bullet buttons they are still detachable magazines.

 

the rest of that is just your personal opinion and id guess youre in the minority.

 

So I get that you disagree, are you going to support your argument?  Or are you going to try and poke holes in mine?  Or are you done?  

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My argument is the rules. Yours is that they should change the rules. Not much to argue about.

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If detachable magazine shotguns are allowed in all divisions- why are we still shooting shotgun at all?

Just eliminate the shotgun altogether, return to some practical application of firearms, and have 2 gun matches.

 

 

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