Intentionally taking a mike

[RJH]

This got me to looking and what I was remembering had more to do with the taping and calling 1 target 2 like used to be common with Mozambique rule 4.1.5.  But after looking I cant find anything saying that you cant have different paper target requiring different numbers of hits. So, for the time being, i wouldn't shoot the noshoots and get the stage tossed:-)

[MikeBurgess]

Its quite legal to have different hits required per target, I had such a stage approved for a level 2 match recently,

Other examples off the top of my head, The classifier 99-63 and stage 5 (Bill Max drill) from the 2017 SS both require different hits on different targets,

[Joe4d]

while legal , I think it violates rule number 1,
Dont be a dick

 

[mwray]

while legal , I think it violates rule number 1,
Dont be a dick
 

If it was all easy it would be no fun. Sometimes you have to set up a few challenging shots

[Joe4d]

requiring different number of shots on different targets in a stage has nothing to do with shooting challenge. It is being a dick. This is a shooting game which should test shooting speed power and accuracy.
No problem with shooting challenges which test that.
Making mind fart games, makes you a dick.,

 

[Joe4d]

but really in this case,, I find it a bit chicken s&#T not to rise up and shoot the shooting challenge presented.
I would never shoot to loose and I think it is sorry to miss fast enough to win

 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Joe4d

[jester121]

On 11/12/2017 at 5:13 PM, pskys2 said:

So I guess the target in question had 4 hostages stationed around him so only the belly button area could be engaged?   The sides and bottom one can buy, the top no shoot?  suspended in mid air?  being held by bad guy? How would the no shoot get there?  How reasonable is it?  When a course designer puts forth a target such as that, IMHO you have to also give leeway to the competitor.  

 

 

You must be confusing USPSA with IDPA -- we don't simulate "bad guys" in this sport; just a couple different shapes of cardboard and steel.

 

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, Joe4d said:

requiring different number of shots on different targets in a stage has nothing to do with shooting challenge. It is being a dick. This is a shooting game which should test shooting speed power and accuracy.
No problem with shooting challenges which test that.
Making mind fart games, makes you a dick.,

 

I think it all comes down to how it is presented. yes having a filed course were every target gets a different number of hits would be a dick move (and a good way to get a stage tossed because people scored it wrong as well) properly presented it can be fun and interesting.

 

like the nationals stage Bill Max Drill, it was a speed shoot where you shot a bill drill (6 shots) on an open target did a reload and shot 2 poppers and a max trap with 2 rounds, we set it up at a club match and it was fun,  and interesting as you had to go from full hose mode to aiming pretty quickly. 

 

 

 

 

[motosapiens]

5 hours ago, Joe4d said:

but really in this case,, I find it a bit chicken shit not to rise up and shoot the shooting challenge presented.
I would never shoot to loose and I think it is sorry to miss fast enough to win

 

 

Then don't set up stages where the best score is most likely attained by missing. If that's the best strategy, it would be silly not to use it.

[itlogo]

17 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

Then don't set up stages where the best score is most likely attained by missing. If that's the best strategy, it would be silly not to use it.

Yup.  Likewise with stages that have disappearing targets that must be activated.  I see shooters shoot the entire stage, then stroll over to the activator and step on it, but don't bother shooting at the DT.

[Gooldylocks]

6 hours ago, Joe4d said:

requiring different number of shots on different targets in a stage has nothing to do with shooting challenge. It is being a dick. This is a shooting game which should test shooting speed power and accuracy.
No problem with shooting challenges which test that.
Making mind fart games, makes you a dick.,

 

Engage a popper to activate a swinger and drop turner. Swinger requires 4 hits, DT requires 2, and two poppers (one more behind the activator). That isn't hard to remember, nor is it a dick move. What it is, however, is an excellent test of shooting speed, accuracy and timing. 

[mwray]

Here’s the shot in question first person view. The bullet made it to the ground halfway to the target

[rowdyb]

i would have shot one round into the dirt at the base of that target as well and called it good. i also would have said, "that's a dumb target" and moved on. but opinions are worth what you pay for them.

 

people who want less thinking required for stages are people who are normally weak at thinking and try to mask it by crying it's not a shooting challenge, it's silly or some such thing.

 

that's why i love competition. it exposes weakness. then it's up to a person to decide what they're going to do about it.

[Solvability]

https://i.imgur.com/L62NpA3.png[/img]

 

It really is tiny - I thought it added a thought process but did not think it improved the stage - whatever.  I shot to miss.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Solvability

[teros135]

I would agree.  For the time it would take to get a solid hit, versus the cost of a NS + M (with the pressure from timer and adrenaline), I'd probably take a pass.  

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, Solvability said:

https://i.imgur.com/L62NpA3.png[/img]

 

It really is tiny - I thought it added a thought process but did not think it improved the stage - whatever.  I shot to miss.

When the RO said “smart man right there” was as he referring to the shooter deliberately not shooting at it? If so, he KNOWS he didn’t engage it right?

Edited November 15, 2017 by Sarge

[Solvability]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

When the RO said “smart man right there” was as he referring to you deliberately not shooting at it? If so, he KNOWS you didn’t engage it right?

nah not me - I ain't that good.

 

[Sarge]

40 minutes ago, Solvability said:

nah not me - I ain't that good.

 

Fixed it thanks!

[Chills1994]

Is the first page of the rulebook still titled "Principles of USPSA Competition"?

 

 

 

IMO, that whole page should go away.

 

That language "primary intended use" is kinda tricky.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Chills1994

[mwray]

My question is when does the RO consider it an AD and not engaging the target?

[tyler2you]

1 hour ago, mwray said:

My question is when does the RO consider it an AD and not engaging the target?

 

Why would it be an AD?  If I have a malfunction during a stage and choose to put one into the berm to test it instead of a target, is that an AD/DQ?

[mwray]

 
Why would it be an AD?  If I have a malfunction during a stage and choose to put one into the berm to test it instead of a target, is that an AD/DQ?

If you shoot too close to your body it’s an AD so why not if it’s too far from a target? I’m not trying to be a dick about it, but had that shot been 25ft to the right of the target it wouldn’t have been considered engaging so why is 25ft short considered to be? Let’s say for the sake of argument that this happened at a lvl2 match what would the call be ?

[IHAVEGAS]

28 minutes ago, mwray said:

 

If you shoot too close to your body it’s an AD so why not if it’s too far from a target? I’m not trying to be a dick about it, but had that shot been 25ft to the right of the target it wouldn’t have been considered engaging so why is 25ft short considered to be? Let’s say for the sake of argument that this happened at a lvl2 match what would the call be ?

 

 

A mike. 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, mwray said:

 

If you shoot too close to your body it’s an AD so why not if it’s too far from a target? I’m not trying to be a dick about it, 

 

Do or do not. There is no try. 

 

The rules are very clear about what constitutes an AD. Within 10', over the berm, while reloading or clearing a malfunction, while moving if not actually aiming at targets. If you choose to shoot sort of near a target, that's not an AD.

 

A level 2 match would be unlikely to have such a stupid target. They have grownup supervision for those things.

[JAFO]

If you look at 10.4, an AD is only called for:

• A shot, which travels over a backstop, a berm or in any other direction, specified in the written stage briefing by the match organizers as being unsafe

• A shot which strikes the ground within 10 feet of the competitor, except when shooting at a paper target closer than 10 feet to the competitor.

• A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a handgun.

• A shot which occurs during remedial action in the case of a malfunction.

• A shot which occurs while transferring a handgun between hands.

• A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets.

So if you're not going over the berm, hitting the ground within 10 feet of you, reloading or performing remedial action, switching hands, or moving, you can shoot an entire magazine into the berm away from any target and it wouldn't be an AD.  I can maybe see an argument for it if they don't stop (i.e., are moving), and fire a shot that's nowhere near the direction of a target, but that can get pretty subjective.

 

EDIT:  And...moto beat me to it. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by JAFO
moto beat me to it