Advice for my next competition 1911

[longinc]

Hi There,

 

I currently shoot a Springfield Armory 1911 - A1 45ACP for uspsa single stack and limited 10. It is a pretty decent first competition gun.  I am looking to upgrade to a much better competition grade 1911. Budget's up to $6-7K (happy to pay less too). Any recommendation of gunsmiths (custom or off the shelf) that specialize in high end competition guns? There are a number of great gunsmiths out there that do really nice work (e.g. Stan chen, Cabot, Nighthawk, Ed Brown etc) but they seem to have less of a competition focus and more of an aesthetic refinement focus (i might be totally wrong). And I'd rather spend most of my budget on getting the features and labor/work done to get the best competition gun in my budget.

 

If this topic has been covered somewhere else, please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

 

Andrew

[Guy Neill]

Is there something your present gun is failing to deliver in use?  If it's doing its job, a different gun may not offer any advantage.

 

The high dollar guns may offer greater looks or pride of ownership, but they don't automatically add anything to shootability, but perhaps can offer embellishments that can benefit the shooter, but only the shooter can really answer that.

 

Determine the features or enhancements that you have noticed lacking in your current gun and then assess the various guns available to determine te gun to choose.

 

On the other hand, you might consider taking one of the pistolsmithing courses such as offered, such as that from Cylinder & Slide and learn the refinement of the gun and thereby allow enhancing the gun(s) yourself.

 

But if it ain't broke, you may not need to fix it.

 

Guy

[BASE772]

3 hours ago, Guy Neill said:

Is there something your present gun is failing to deliver in use?  If it's doing its job, a different gun may not offer any advantage.

 

The high dollar guns may offer greater looks or pride of ownership, but they don't automatically add anything to shootability, but perhaps can offer embellishments that can benefit the shooter, but only the shooter can really answer that.

 

Determine the features or enhancements that you have noticed lacking in your current gun and then assess the various guns available to determine te gun to choose.

 

On the other hand, you might consider taking one of the pistolsmithing courses such as offered, such as that from Cylinder & Slide and learn the refinement of the gun and thereby allow enhancing the gun(s) yourself.

 

But if it ain't broke, you may not need to fix it.

 

Guy

Well said. I completely agree. My Springfield Range Officer is a better gun than I'll ever be a shooter. My not be as pretty as custom but does the job well.  

[Steve RA]

Agree with the above, if the gun works well for you, just continue to shoot it.  If it needs a few refinements, do those and spend the difference on ammunition components and match fees.

[Edge40]

This has to be the only place where people would talk someone out of buying another gun hahaha.  I do agree with what they are saying but there is something to be said for a custom gun.  Some of the parts will likely be of better quality and increase reliability in the long run.  I doubt that you are outshooting your Springfield so accuracy probably isn't much of a concern.  I personally like having 2 guns.  A primary and a backup.  I travel as much as I can to shoot and I would hate to miss out because of something breaking that i cant fix quick.  If you have that much cash to spend and really want a new blaster check out Atlas gunworks.  Adam and the fellas build a top notch gun and the customer service is excellent. The wait time isn't bad either.  Let us know what you decide to do.

[rowdyb]

Without reason, sometimes you just want a new gun. I understand that. Sounds like you want something that says to you "competition only" 1911 versus "re-purposed for the match" 1911.

 

A Miata makes a great track car but you may really want an Atom. Nothing wrong with that, even if you don't end up driving the Atom any faster than you did the Miata. Do your own thang.

 

No need to spend 6k on a SS gun.  Atlas Gun Works Single Stack is $3,600. An Akai Custom Guns Wraith is $3,600. A Wilson Combat CQB Elite is $3,700 but they'll have to make it for you if you want it in .40 instead of 45. A McLearn is $3,900.

 

With any of these there should be no sense at all of "well I just don't have the bleeding edge of a competitive SS gun....."

[Bruce]

I recommend you email or contact Nils Jonasson about his single stack built by Matt McLearn.  Then, contact Matt and ask him to "build me one just like Nils has":)   

 

I have 2 single stacks built by Matt, both in .45, one damascus slide, one regular slide, and both have been 100% reliable, very accurate, and just an all around pleasure to shoot.    

[zzt]

If I were in your shoes 'wanting' a state of the art, competition SS gun, and I had $6-7k burning a hole in my pocket, I'd but two identical custom guns from your choice of any rowdy listed.  You the have a primary and an identical backup.

 

Since I'm not in your shoes and definitely don not have that much money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd upgrade your SA.  Get rid of the ILS system and change out all of the internals to get rid of MIM parts.  The frame, slide and barrel on every SA I've examined at the club have been very good and well fit.  Adding an EGW fire control system and converting the ILS to 'normal' will do wonders.  Give it a try before you do anything.

[Husker95]

I'm a B class SS dude shooting a 1999 vintage SA Loaded.  I ran it for a couple years and, when it started to get a little wonky, I had a local smith fit a new Kart barrel/bushing and do a trigger job with all EGW parts.  That upgrade cost me about 750 and I paid 650 for the gun new in 1999.  After the upgrade, the gun shoots lights out and will hold its own with all the Baers,, Wilsons and other custom jobs on the range.  And I don't cringe when I see the holster wear or it gets dinged up on a prop.  Presently, I am holding the gun back from A class or higher - not the other way around.

 

My advice.......if you want a gun to run in SSTK go get a SA Range Officer.  Hell for that money get 2 or 3 as backups.  If you want the take-your-breath-away, heirloom 1911 go with the Cabot, Nighthawk, Brown, etc.

[BASE772]

Guess the bottom line is if you have the money and want a custom gun then go for it. Custom gun won't make anyone a better shooter in my opinion.  They just look cooler. 

 A Trojan, Sig Max, and a Range Officer got me to Master in SS. And still the only thing holding me back is me. Not my 1911's. 

[longinc]

Thank you everyone for the great advice. What triggered my desire to "buy a better gun" was when I shot a friend's nicer gun (an STI DVC classic) and i was getting tighter grouping than my SA at 25 yards So that got me thinking (or rather desiring) for something better. But sounds like based on what folks are saying here is I have price pragmatic options (like upgrade components on my existing gun) to "ego stroking" options like a full $6K custom to something in-between in the $3-4K range. I am leaning to the latter 2 options ( i admit it, i am yearning for a new gun). Before I start down the path of contacting the suggested gunsmiths, can anyone point me to where I can get smarter (short of taking a full on gun smithing class) on what makes a 1911 more accurate (and at the same time sufficiently reliable for competition)? (i seem to have this perception that accuracy and reliability are conflicting in that when you get more of 1, you get less of the other. i might be wrong on this....anyways, now you know my state of knowledge). I tried googling this, but haven't found great information. Does anyone know of a reliable knowledge source on this?

 

Thanks again!! 

[rowdyb]

Read all 38 articles tagged with 1911 as a key word. http://modernserviceweapons.com/?cat=3

 

You can glean some things here, but mostly newbie friendly stuff. http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-1911-Auto-Maintenance-Manual-by-Bill-Wilson/productinfo/401/

 

A performance piece of equipment normally needs a commensurate amount of attention to cleaning, accessory components and parts replacement, in my experience. Whether it is a gun or anything else.

 

I think to answer your question, why did you shoot better groups with a different gun comes down to three main things. 1. Sights. Find sights appropriate for your eyes, preferred sight picture and usage. Many people would say for us this is a thin fo front and a fully adjustable flat black rear. You might have shot his gun better as you saw a physically better sight picture than you're used to, one that allowed you more consistency. 2. Trigger. When you pull the trigger you move the gun. So the bullet goes off a little (or a lot) from where you intended it  based on the sight picture you had that was good enough to prompt you to pull the trigger. A trigger that takes less force to activate and less distance for travel has the potential for you to put less influence into moving the gun. Thus disturbing things less and being more accurate. 3. Mechanical accuracy. He might have made better ammo than you that was also just right for his gun. His barrel to slide fit might be better than yours. His lugs might lock up better than yours. His slide to frame fit might be better than yours. The intrinsic things about the gun and how the parts just move back and forth and fit together. Tight/smooth normally means something more repeatable which normally means increased accuracy.

 

You can take your current pistol and change 1, getting sights you like that mabye work better than you currently have. You can change 2 by installing a new fire control group with any one of dozens of good tuners and gunsmiths. And 3 you can get a new barrel and bushing and get them fitted, improving the mechanical accuracy of your gun. Finally start testing your loads and develop what gets the best groups over what is closest to power factor or cheapest to create.

 

I hope this helps a little. I still say put in an order for a new gun from one of the people I listed and then go for it. Aaaand do a little to your current gun to improve it while you wait for the custom gun to arrive.

[longinc]

RowdyB, thank you very much! This is super helpful information, insight and advice. Much appreciated!

[Bigzeke]

Little more old school, but there are 2 books out (Vol. 1 & 2) by Jerry Kuhnhausen about the 1911. They were considered the end all and be all of 1911s in the day and contain a lot (some would say all) of the workings of a 1911. Just a consideration. 

 

Another thought. Bruce Piatt teaches a custom 1911 build class. He just did one here locally. Quite a few of my friends took it (I was too poor to do it). I have handled a few of the ones built in that class. A great option in the custom department and you get to make it your own. Everyone that took it here gave absolutely rave feedback. So much that another class is already in the works.

 

 

[longinc]

Thanks for the suggestions Bigzeke!

[tbarker13]

If you feel the desire for a custom 1911, then go for it. It's not going to make you a better shooter. But if it offers an enjoyment boost for your shooting, then why not do it? This game is about having fun. 

I have a SA Range Officer and a Wilson Combat CQB Elite - though I shoot both in 9mm. I can't say that the Wilson is noticeably better when it comes to shooting performance. But I know for certain that I get more enjoyment out of shooting the Wilson. It's just a well-made gun. 

 

 

[mlmiller1]

On 9/7/2017 at 8:14 PM, longinc said:

Thank you everyone for the great advice. What triggered my desire to "buy a better gun" was when I shot a friend's nicer gun (an STI DVC classic) and i was getting tighter grouping than my SA at 25 yards So that got me thinking (or rather desiring) for something better. 

Have you maximized for accuracy the load you presently shoot from your gun?  Plenty of accuracy can be gained by working on the load.  Obviously easier to do if you reload but doable with factory ammo also.

I am never against someone buying another gun but if you want better accuracy, work on optimizing your ammo.  If you want a new gun, buy one.  No excuses needed.  Lol

[Gooldylocks]

Most important parts of accuracy, in order;

1. Good sight alignment,
2. a good trigger press,
3. decent sights,
4. barrel fit,
5. bushing fit, 
6. an accurate load,

.......

.......

  194. who built it

 

If you want a cool gun, then more power to you. I would love a custom 1911. But unless your gun is very inaccurate (>3" at 25) or unreliable, there is little to be gained in my opinion. Spending more than 3-4k on a SS to me is pure insanity though.

[e4effort]

On 9/10/2017 at 10:31 AM, Gooldylocks said:

Most important parts of accuracy, in order;

1. Good sight alignment,
2. a good trigger press,
3. decent sights,
4. barrel fit,
5. bushing fit, 
6. an accurate load,

.......

.......

  194. who built it

 

If you want a cool gun, then more power to you. I would love a custom 1911. But unless your gun is very inaccurate (>3" at 25) or unreliable, there is little to be gained in my opinion. Spending more than 3-4k on a SS to me is pure insanity though.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Will always come down to the the driver and not the car.

 

As everyone else has said, you can buy something in the 2-3k range from any of the semi-custom (baer, WC, STI, etc) or custom guys (atlas, akai, reputable gunsmiths to build off a base gun) and you'll have yourself an exceptional blaster.

Edited September 12, 2017 by e4effort

[Gooldylocks]

For the record, if I were paying for a custom single stack gun it would be a Canyon Creek. Because pure sex. 

 

http://www.canyoncreekcustom.com

[hjweiss]

Why not consider something a bit different....like a 2011 instead of a 1911.   An SVI Infinity would be within your budget and they are fantastic performance pistols.  

[Jammer1911]

Like all the above said plus a shameless plug for Johnny Lim at Limcat Custons. The Tomcat 40 has great Awwww Factor and very well built and accurate to boot.  Just my .02

[longinc]

Thank you everyone for your great recommendations and advice!

[cas]

Everyone has there own angle on it. I view match guns as things I'm going to treat badly, use hard and beat up on. Because of this, my Single Stack gun is the cheapest 1911 I own. 

[StuckinMS]

If and that is only in a fantasy, I had that kind of money, I would go Atlas  and use my Sig max for a backup.  Then spend the rest of the cash on lots of boolits and top notch holster