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AzNooB

When to upgrade to a new gun?

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I didn't know where else to ask this question, so I decided to post it here. I started my membership with USPSA a while ago, but never really shot matches due to my work schedule. I'm finally starting to get some free time, so I'm shooting more.

 

I know I want a CZ Custom Shop Shadow variant, but I don't know at what point will I see a benefit from it in my scores. I currently shoot a bone stock Glock 34 Gen4 with Proctor Y-sights. I just shot my first classifier match and based on my scores, I'm assuming I'll be a low B or maybe a high C shooter (Scores are not up yet).

 

My carry gun is a Glock 19 and my backup match gun is a Glock 17 that I bought 5 years ago. I like that they are inexpensive, simple, low maintenance, have a consistent trigger pull, and are quick on transitions. I don't like that the trigger requires a high amount of focus to pull without shifting the gun, and mistakes are quite unforgiving - especially while shooting one handed. 

 

I mention my carry gun because I carry at minimum 95% of the time when out and about in public, and like to be proficient with my carry gun. If I change my competition gun, I would want to change my carry gun to something with an identical manual of arms. It doesn't make sense to me to practice a ton with one system and then change to a completely different system for self defense. So if/when I do upgrade, I'll need to buy two CZ Custom Shop guns. 

 

Would I be doing myself a disservice by spending money on new firearms instead of spending that same amount of money on match experience and training? 

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When you get the shiny new CZ it will take you an average of three months of dedicated practice to get back to where you were the day you stopped shooting the Glock.

 

Chnaging platforms does not make one better, and the Glock is a very competitive gun in the hands of a more skilled shooter than you are.

 

It took me four months to shoot the Tanfoglio as well as I shot my M&P (Production A shooter) because I didn't dryfire enough. I switched to it in late November, and finally shot my first M classifier with it at our March 11 match.

 

Stick with Glock and lots of practice if your goal is the quickest path to shooting better.

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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I switched to my shadow custom from a Glock 26. I still shoot the Glock 26 pretty well, even tho I'm focusing on the shadow for uspsa.

I'm guessing the basics still transfer over, but the manual of arms is still different. Mostly the decocking at make ready, dropping the hammer is still something that takes getting used to.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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It's weird, I played hockey growing up and bass and was essentially a complete gear geek for those activities.  But for shooting, I decided I am going to choose my gear and stick with it.  I shoot a G34 as well and I am not even thinking about getting a different gun.  I think this helps me just pay attention to nothing but practice and evaluating my shooting.

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36 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

When you get the shiny new CZ it will take you an average of three months of dedicated practice to get back to where you were the day you stopped shooting the Glock.

 

Chnaging platforms does not make one better, and the Glock is a very competitive gun in the hands of a more skilled shooter than you are.

 

It took me four months to shoot the Tanfoglio as well as I shot my M&P (Production A shooter) because I didn't dryfire enough. I switched to it in late November, and finally shot my first M classifier with it at our March 11 match.

 

Stick with Glock and lots of practice if your goal is the quickest path to shooting better.

 

I think your experience is what I needed hear. I have been under some peer pressure to change to CZs because of the "benefit". 

 

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to switch from your M&P to the Tanfo?

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49 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 So if/when I do upgrade, I'll need to buy two CZ Custom Shop guns. 

 

 

IFF you have $2,000 you don't know what to do with, go for two CZ's.

 

IFF not, stick with der Glock :) 

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11 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to switch from your M&P to the Tanfo?

 

Good question.

 

I shot the M&P up through SSP Master and then over into USPSA B class on a casual journey through practical shooting. I literally shot one gun without exception, from 2008 through 2016.

 

I recently decided that I wanted to get heavy into USPSA and make a push to achieve an M classification by the end of 2017. I bought the Tanfo as part of a fresh start, and to help motivate me to practice. 

 

And it's working. But not because the gun was holding me back.

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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Just now, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Good question.

 

I shot the M&P up through SSP Master and then over into USPSA B class on a casual journey through practical shooting. I literally shot one gun without exception, from 2008 through 2016.

 

I recently decided that I wanted to get heavy into USPSA and make a push to achieve an M classification by the end of 2017. I bought the Tanfo as part of a fresh start, and to help motivate me to practice. 

 

And it's working.

 

So it was purely psychological? Do you think you would have gotten to M in the same amount of time using your M&P?

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If the practice were equally intense? No.

 

I'd probably be there already. 

 

Guns don't make you better. Matches are won with a G34 over a Shadow all the time. A Glock 34 has won Production nationals around half a dozen times. No one has ever won Nationals with a CZ.

 

Remind your buddies of that, when they tell you that your gun is holding you back.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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Get the idea of a new gun out of your head!  Never think about it again!

 

ha ha. Kidding.  Kinda.   

 

Seriously, I've got it bad. I started with a glock 34.  Now I shoot a CZ shadow.  Have two shadow 1's. Have one shadow 2 (picking it up tonight) may have anoter shadow 2 on the way.  I have $1000 in mags alone for my CZ's because I need (don't really need) the nickel plated ones and need SP base pads. 

 

I've shot a tanfo lim pro. Shot a wilson beretta. And the g34. 

 

I did make Master in both sports with my shadow but I still have some kind of hiccup every once and a while with it. Either I short stroke he trigger or accidentally activate the thumb safety. That means I need to train more to avoid those two common problems.   I wouldn't have either of those problems with my G34. Incould spend the same time training on another skill like translations rather than making sure I'm not accidentally activating the thumb safety!

 

Ask Memphis, every other week I text him telling him I'm gonna go back to the G34. 

 

 

So, after saying all this.  My advice is to forget about a new gun. Take the money for the newer 2X more expensive gun, mags, holster, pouches and buy a reloader if you don't already have one. Then with the $500 you'll still have left, yes even after buying a Dillon 650, go get some training from a professional.  You'll be a better shooter and will have more

money left over for matches!    

 

 

Then,....if you still want a different gun a year or two from now, then find a friend and try theirs. 

 

 

 

If you just have to change something, you might try new sights and trigger kit for the G34. Maybe $200 worth of stuff total. 

Edited by B_RAD

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To tack onto what BRAD said, I left out the first two years I shot with a G34. Made SSP Master with it.

 

I only switched to the M&P because it has full ambi controls and I'm a lefty and I wanted to play with the brand new gun on the block. (My M&P was one of the first few thousand made!)

 

Glock is good. Shoot Glock. Get gooder.

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Don't bother unless your gear is holding you back. I upgraded because I had an unreliable gun that was causing issues. 

 

Spend the the money on practice ammo, reloading, or maybe a class with a professional, competition-focused instructor. Or maybe do some work on your glock- have the trigger on your competition guns tweaked. I wouldn't mess with the carry gun beyond maybe a Glock "-" connector or a ghost connector, but for the competition ones, the sky's the limit as long as you keep it within the rules and it stays reliable. 

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39 minutes ago, DKorn said:

Don't bother unless your gear is holding you back. I upgraded because I had an unreliable gun that was causing issues. 

 

Spend the the money on practice ammo, reloading, or maybe a class with a professional, competition-focused instructor. Or maybe do some work on your glock- have the trigger on your competition guns tweaked. I wouldn't mess with the carry gun beyond maybe a Glock "-" connector or a ghost connector, but for the competition ones, the sky's the limit as long as you keep it within the rules and it stays reliable. 

 

I don't know much about modifying Glock triggers. I see a lot become unreliable when people modify them, but I don't know what makes them unreliable after they've been altered.

 

I also want a near identical trigger feel on my carry gun and competition gun, so I'm not interested in making my competition gun significantly lighter than my carry gun. 

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4 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 

I don't know much about modifying Glock triggers. I see a lot become unreliable when people modify them, but I don't know what makes them unreliable after they've been altered.

 

I also want a near identical trigger feel on my carry gun and competition gun, so I'm not interested in making my competition gun significantly lighter than my carry gun. 

 

I'm not a glock expert either, but from what I've seen/read, I'd try just a Ghost connector or Glock brand "-"connector. Supposedly the Glock one will shave off about a pound of trigger pull with no effect on reliability. I'd also look up the Glock "25 cent trigger job"- basically, you polish all the moving surfaces without changing any geometry, which smooths out the trigger pull somewhat. I've done the polish job to my carry gun but haven't bothered with a new connector yet. 

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Sorry for the blip above^^^

 

I use a G17 for production. Let me say that I'm awful and just dabble in this endeavor. But I'm now at the point where I want to start taking this whole thing a bit more seriously. I intend to get as much out of what I have before putting any more money into this particular aspect of the sport.

 

I have made a few upgrades in my holster/belt system, this I believe will help a lot. My G17 has just about every upgrade allowable for production except I'm still using the factory barrel. I actually have 3 G17s, the one I use for competition has a Vogel drop in trigger. It is better than doing the 25 cent trigger job but costs a lot more than 25 cents. As others have said you can buy competition trigger spring kits and polish a few things with flitz which really is an improvement for about $50.00. I have done this on one of my other G17s and it's not bad.

 

I just installed a steel guide rod and 13 # recoil spring. I haven't made up my mind on this yet but I think it's good improvement. I just need to get out and put some more ammo down range.

 

I'm not a Glock salesmen. I understand the allure of buying something new. But I agree with others that personal skills are the thing to focus on. My advice, regardless of your decision to throw money into your existing firearms or buy new, take what ever guns you plan to compete with and put as much practice time into them as possible.

 

On thing that Glocks have going for them is they are simple to operate. When I take out my 1911 I almost always have issues with the thumb safety because I don't practice with that gun often.

 

ON EDIT: I'm uncomfortable giving advice but just wanted to throw my support to what most are saying in response to your question.

Edited by firewood

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My question is why do you want the CZ?  You mentioned peer pressure.  If you want to get better at the game, follow Memphis's advice.  Hard to argue with those stats!  Like you said, spend the money on shooting your glock.

If your friends are shooting CZs, borrow one and see how it feels.  If you want to buy a new gun, by all means, buy one.  Just don't do it because your friends think it will make the difference in your scores.

  People play this game for different reasons, I like the opportunity to shoot different guns on a course instead of standing and shooting targets.  I don't expect move up in USPSA very quickly because I shoot all the different club events.  Like you, I feel it is important to shoot and work with my carry gun, so I do the club concealed carry courses.  I don't feel compromised by not sticking with one gun and one event.  

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i'm a cz fan ...... a huge one

 

But.... i'm going to echo the above

 

gun does not make the shooter

 

i would stroke my match gun as much as possible to stay witih in production if that is what you want.   this should satisfy man's innate need to to weak and tinker.   also after this point there is no reason that glock will be holding you back.

 

i have a stroked  CZ   i get beat by glocks all the time......     its not the gun its the guy behind it

 

buy a dillon 550 or 650 powder, brass primers etc etc     and shoot more, lots more

 

do more dry fire drills

 

do more movement drills

 

shoot more matches

 

shoot with other "friends"

 

get some training

 

shoot your friends CZ's as much as possible

 

why czc...... peer pressure?     what about cajun and automatic accuracy?

 

give this a few months of solid training then revisit the question

 

 

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The grip angle difference between the two platforms will take lot of practice to transition. I would hold off on buying a new gun and just shoot what you have.

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whenever you want I must say... but you'll have to get used to your gun every time, and it takes time

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I'm in the same boat, I really want a CZ but I'm going to put the money toward ammo for my 34 until I start getting a lot better.

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On 3/21/2017 at 11:48 AM, AzNooB said:

Would I be doing myself a disservice by spending money on new firearms instead of spending that same amount of money on match experience and training? 

 

This is a real pet peeve of mine.

 

You're mixing up your balance sheet and your income statement.  When you buy a gun, you convert one asset (cash) into another asset (gun), the difference between what you bought it for and what you could sell it for (depreciation) is the only expense.

 

Ammo and training on the other hand are pure expenses, powder is burned, bullets go downrange and they're spent.

 

If you buy used guns/gear and shop carefully there's a good chance it doesn't cost you anything.  So as long as you're not cash poor, switching platforms shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

If you want to do it, do it!  Otherwise you'll always be curious.  That being said, a lot of shooters talk about switching from Glock to CZ to improve their scores, but that's mostly bullshit, practice improves your scores.

 

I shoot CZs because I'm the CZ guy, if you want to be a CZ guy too, sell the Glocks and get some!

 

I look at diehard Glock guys like the guy at the track with a 1989 LX Mustang who wears his shitty paint job like a badge of honor :roflol:

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