firewood

Assume 20-24 weeks lead time. Coated lead bullets are a complicated manufacturing process.

I received one (of two) cases yesterday, this was on order for 22 weeks. The other case I received a refund from the supplier, that one was on order for 20 weeks. If I were to recap the experience I had communicating with the supplier no one would believe me so I will just skip that part. Will never, ever ever purchase from them again. I would rather stop shooting than support that business. Some might find this hard to believe but I'm not a demanding and/or unreasonable consumer. Having said that I wish them all the best for the future.

There is a thread here mostly regarding Bayou deliveries. It is not the company it once was, sad to say. See the thread titled "Recent bullet orders".

I live in a rural area between Allentown PA and Scranton. I had a recent package shipped to me from CA. It went to Philadelphia, then Edison NJ, then to Allentown, then to my local PO, then to Scranton, then to Newark, NJ then back to Philadelphia, Allentown, back to Newark, some place in south jersey, Allentown, local and finally delivered.

I have two remaining case lot orders with Bayou. One is 21 weeks old the other is 19 weeks. That means I paid this company about $500 many months ago. I'm not going to run out of bullets this week or next but this company confirmed a lead time of 8-12 weeks. As of today they are 9 weeks late on something as simple as a coated bullet. They have had my money for over 5 months. I could order the same exact bullet from BBI and have them in a week. And in the future that is what I will do. A real shame because I was a loyal customer for years. All it would take is a little bit of business sense and management skills but apparently we are supposed to act as if the company that gladly took our money last year is doing us a huge favor by shipping something...eventually.

I have another case about two weeks behind that. Once I receive the (two) outstanding orders I will be clean with them. Then looking ahead, unless they become the only supplier of bullets in the world, I will just on principle avoid them. I have plenty of primers.

Case of 9mm 135g RN Bayou ordered 20 weeks ago not shipped yet.

I'm in a semi-rural area about 7 miles to the PO. Our post carrier is a waife of a lady so I tell her to hold them at the PO will pick them up first chance I get. Usually when I pick them up they bring them out on a flat top rolling cart. The last delivery was 2 cases, they brought them out in a canvas laundry cart, which I had to bend way over to pick up. I have two cases on order should have them in a few weeks, if they do the laundry cart thing again I will ask to speak with the postmaster.

I had a total of 4 case lot orders, all paid for at order placement, so $1,000.00 The first two cases shipped at 19 weeks, this after calling and speaking to (intentionally left blank) three times plus two email inquiries. I received these about 3 weeks ago. The second two cases, one is currently at 16 weeks, the other is 14 weeks. On this I will wait for the end of May before trying to contact then if I haven't received them by then. One of the three conversations I had with them turned out to be one of the most strangest I've ever had. This is saying something because I have worked sales and customer service for 36 years.

It is case mouth tension that holds the bullet in an auto-loading cartridge. A U die gives more case mouth tension, add just enough taper crimp to remove the flair. Since going that route I haven't had a single instance of lose powder in the cylinder. Prior to that I had a few.

Not to take away anything from the kids but it is hard to argue with this. In the World Speed shoot this year there are 167 guns total in Main Match. Some of the rimfire and PCC rifle divisions alone have almost that many guns. Production had 12 guns, OSR had 15. Locally I'm used to about 30% of the guns being centerfire handguns drawn from a holster. So yes the sport is currently dominated by kids shooting rimfire and PCC. How does the sport stay viable for the traditional base if this trend continues? If HQ sees this as a disturbing trend then they could offer incentives to get more interest in centerfire handguns.

I also use a U die (EGW), a Dillon 9mm crimp die, .358 coated bullets and Winchester brass.

While the influx of new shooters explains in part the demand for commercial ammo, it really isn't a satisfactory explanation for the shortage of coated lead bullets used by a select number of shooters. Yes we are currently buying in part to lay up a store for a rainy day but newcomers to firearms ownership are not the traditional customers of bulk bullet sales or high end reloading equipment. Going from past experience, I like others made sure that I had ample supplies of powder and primers and even some rimfire ammo but in the past shortages, bullets were not the supply problem they are today. My bad for sure and it will not happen again. What I find frustrating is we the consumer have contingency plans in place for such a time as this but the industry did not see this clearly and has not even after a full year found a solution to the problems. As an example of this, the last big shortage 2013-2016 saw for example increased availability of S&B primers and Vectan and Shooters Choice powders to help stem the tide. This was not new material but rather imports that had fallen by the wayside, brought back to life. I think the best thing we can do is try to resist the temptation to pay outrageous high prices for these items. Supply and demand laws will bring stability to the market once supply is able to meet demand. The demand is to an extent artificial and I'm part of the problem, I admit this. While not the best situation I would personally rather wait than pay inflated prices and feed the beast. I want to be there on the range just as much as anyone else but my life will not cease if I'm unable to compete at my preferred rate. One of the reasons I have what reloading components I do have is because like others my rate of consumption was much lower in 2020 that it was in 2019. While I did acquire components in 2020 pre-demic, it was to bolster my existing supplies to extend beyond 2020. I did miscalculate the availability of bullets though. Because of my relative inactivity in 2020, I basically extended my supply for another year at minimal cost but like others I did this with a sense of pre-planning for this very situation.

As an individual with manufacturing experience I also ask the question "why?" Human nature being what it is if there was a specific problem in the supply chain, for example getting lead in bulk, the bullet industry would be plastering us with this information and the cost of the product would skyrocket due to the law of supply and demand. But this is not what is happening. The information we do get is somewhat vague but reading between the lines it points in the direction of capacity and/or cash flow. Again, human nature wants to deflect blame or cause to someone or something besides itself so you are not hearing the producers saying that we are well beyond capacity because even the dumbest businessmen knows that at some point in the future this situation will correct itself, business will then fall off and survival will become a real issue. Who wants to say that you Mr. Smith, cannot shoot this match season because I cannot fill your already paid for order? No one wants to do that and while shooters in general are brand loyal in the extreme it is a fragile alliance and we have long memories. What is hurting the industry reputation in my opinion is first they are requiring payment at the time of order placement then stumbling with delivery and second they are accepting new orders without having any kind of viable recovery plan to soften the blow. I understand fully that a small operation doesn't want to spend money willy-nilly just to have orders cancelled by an impatient customer. But again, a purchase that is paid for is in effect a contract and once the customer pays his obligation is complete, the supplier has to meet his obligation under the contract or expect to experience customer dissatisfaction. If a supplier says delivery in 10 weeks after receipt of payment and that 10 weeks turns into 20 weeks then the customer has a right to be unhappy regardless of the reason for the delay.

My Bayou order finally shipped yesterday, all it took was 19.5 weeks!

I have a 17 year old Trek 4500 which is a "Hybrid Mountain Bike" Anyway not quite a beginner as I have been riding bikes for about 3 years. I do not ride technical single track mostly road bikes. Local here is the famous D&L Trail, a MUP (multi-use path) most of it is old railroad bed or canal towpath so it is basically flat. The roads are another story. Anyway last summer I did weekly metric centuries, 12 of them in all, between 62 and 75 mile non-stop rides on the D&L with my Trek which is really kind of a tank. Not bad for a 62 YO almost beginner. My primary road bike is a 15 YO Cannondale Synapse AL, a $350 craigs list find, which I usually do twice weekly rides in my neighborhood 15-25+ miles each with 2000+ feet of climbing. Do I want a better bicycle? Yes. I. Do. But for now I do very well against those with $6K CF electronic shifting machines. Bicycles are like competition shooting, a lot of ways to transfer your disposable income outbound and actually a lot of opportunities to put a social life together around the hobby. The main thing is to get your FTP up with a decent power to weight ratio. To myself I say kiddingly as my FTP is 3.256 watts per kilogram that I'm classified as a "B" rider LOL! In 2020 between outside riding and smart trainer/Zwift I logged in 6350 miles, almost 400,000 feet of climbing. So far this year I'm a bit behind the 8 ball. To anyone still in this discussion, I'm all for making oneself happy and doing with your monies what you please, good shooting equipment do cost money. And this is a past time for most of us, recreation. I do get the impression that the pent-up energy associated with the past years lockdown and stimulus bux available are the cause of a temporary "let me try to purchase some shooting skills" but it's all in good fun.

Bayou Bullets--19 weeks and nothing.

I had that same phone conversation last week. Only difference being my order is older. Since I have decades in technical sales and customer service for an OEM, I know from experience when someone is shooting from the hip. But I figured I would give them another week.

Not to be a nit-picker but that is 18 weeks. Having said that they must like you Bill, I have an order (one of 4 open orders I have with them) placed the same day which is no-where. I consider this a teachable moment.

^^^ All that to say your orders are going to be delivered late.

Search both here and the BE revolver subforums on shortening 38 brass to 38 short colt length. It is not as easy as it sounds. I do think that using 38 short colt might be a solution to your problem. There are a lot of 627 and TRR8 shooters in Steel Challenge that use that cartridge. I'm not one of them I have 929s so 9mm. I would ask around before committing a lot of time and money. Bullseye or WST 105g SWC coated.

The sad part of the story is if they just sent out notices to their customers with open orders or at the minimum put a notice on their website with a status and a recovery plan they would enhance their reputation not kill it. Really a shame.

There must be a lot more to making coated lead bullets than what I have imagined. I could see if you let your operating costs run wild to meet demand then you might have a cash flow problem ....if your customers were paying net 30 days or even on delivery. But I don't think that is what is going one here, I've already paid for my late late late orders. Based on that, it seems like the bullet industry is committing customer service suicide by not communicating.

^^^^^^^ agree with HesedTech 9mm 3pc die set? Lets assume that you have a combination bullet seating and crimp die. If so, and this is probably correct, it is possible that the die is set to crimp before the bullet is fully seated. That might be the reason you are getting case bulges. It is difficult but not impossible to use a seat/crimp die successfully but with coated bullets it is much easier to seat and crimp as separate operations. If you want to go this route you will probably want a 9mm taper crimp die. To set this up you will unscrew your current seat/crimp die a few turns then use the seat stem to the proper depth. In other words by unscrewing the die body you will disable the crimp feature and just seat the bullet. Then, use your new taper crimp die to just remove the case mouth belling on your 9mm ammo. This adds an extra step but eliminates a lot of headaches. As mentioned the 9mm case is tapered so a crimp die isn't going to do anything for bulges at the base. Try resizing some of your brass and see if there are any issues getting the brass to case gauge before you flair, charge, seat and crimp. If there is no bulges after resizing then the problem is obviously further downstream. I check every single one of my finished 9mm rounds, if they don't case gauge I scrap them. I probably get 1 or 2 out of every 100 rounds that don't case gage. Compared to some here I'm a piker but I process well over 10k 9mm rounds per year. I do the above mentioned seat and crimp as a separate operation. I use an EGW undersize die but that die doesn't resize all the way to the base. I use it for more case mouth tension. I also use .358 coated bullets, I use most of my 9mm in a revolver (S&W 929). I'm not suggesting that you use .358 bullets.

May I ask what gun, barrel length, exact bullet used? Are you using moons? I use S&W 929s for SCSA so 9mm but the guys that I know that use 38 revos (627s and such), many of them use 38 short colt brass. Just food for thought, there are a bunch of threads here on this I think the revolver sub forum is where most of them are located.