.45 in Limited

[mont1120]

So I found what might be a decent deal on an STI Eagle, but it is in .45. Currently I shoot the dreaded Limited 10 (yes, I admit to my sins) and since I shoot a .45 in the L10 division, this is a great upgrade opportunity for me. The issue I find myself faced with is what happens if L10 is eliminated?

Can't shoot Production, .45 in Open is useless, and SS does not allow the 2011 frame. That leaves Limited. Yet I read time and again how even using a .40 is a limiting factor in going against higher capacity 9MM in the Limited division. From what I read the .45 will hold a max of 15 rounds, leaving me 5 behind the .40 shooters. But is this really a problem?

I'm at the age where speed is something people did in the 70's. My knees are in awful shape, so does throwing in an extra reload that much of a disadvantage for slower shooters since the time to make the reload is going to be there? How much time is lost in a reload versus just getting to the next shooting location?

If the reload is insurmountable, can a .45 Eagle even be converted to a .40 without breaking the bank? A lot of pistols can't go from a .45 to a .40 for any reason. If it can be done, am I looking at 5 new mags again also?

[Hi-Power Jack]

does throwing in an extra reload that much of a disadvantage for slower shooters since the time to make the reload is going to be there?

I've shot with some people who have limited mobility - they seem to have Plenty OF Time

to reload while they're moving from one position to another.

And, L10 is NOT going to be eliminated.

Go for it ...

[Trent1k1]

Sometimes, there might be a stage where you can hose everything (20 rounds) from 1 position. Those aren't actually legal, but sometimes you can find a sweet spot if there is no back fault line.

Other than the cost of 45 vs 40, I wouldn't let that hold me back.

[Bob DuBois]

Might have one more reload but once we hit the senior years it's all about having fun. You would have to change the whole top end and ejector to change over to

limited along with magazines. There was a sweet deal in the classifieds on a hard chromed Edge in 40 last night.

[Bob DuBois]

Still there second page

[zzt]

I don't see the Eagle as being any advantage at all for you. I shoot with a friend who uses a Para 45 with 15 round mags. He changes mags almost as often as the L10 and production shooters. 15 rounds is not enough to let you shoot two sections without a reload (most), and 15 is too many for any one section. SS or L10 is where I would shoot 45.

If you want to move to Limited, wait for a good used 40. I don't see that as any advantage for you if you cannot move quickly.

I started shooting USPSA "like" events. It turns out they were set up by Limited shooters who did not follow USPSA stage design rules. The were more than 8 shots in some stations, and some stages required 40 rounds. I shot with my 1911 and the limited mag capacity was a big disadvavtage. So I bought a Limited pistol, and later all the race gear.

Later, I shot in sanctioned USPSA matches. I discovered that at most matches the stages were set up to be SS friendly. If I had been aware of "real" USPSA rules, I'd have shot my 1911 is SS a lot sooner.

[diver60540]

Have to agree with zzt. 15+1 won't get you through 2 8 shot arrays. So you might as well use a single stack and 8 or ten round mags for a 45 in limited. Converting a 45 to 40 is probably not worth it either, because the breech probably won't work for the smaller case rim. Barrel, bushing, and mags too. Here's another idea; how about a 9 and shoot minor? Virtually all double stack 9's will get you to 18+ with a Barney. Cheaper and in a 2011 platform really fun to shoot. Of course there's that points thing......

[motosapiens]

Sometimes, there might be a stage where you can hose everything (20 rounds) from 1 position. Those aren't actually legal,

not to nitpick, but it's perfectly legal to have a stage where you *can* shoot 20 rounds from 1 position. it's not legal to have a stage where you *must* shoot 20 rounds from 1 position.

[Nightops]

1.2.1.2 “Medium Courses” must not require more than 20 rounds to complete and no more than 3 shooting locations. Course design and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.

[teros135]

However, it's not legal to have a stage where you can shoot the entire stage from one position. This is a primary consideration in stage design, in addition to the "no more than 8 shots REQUIRED from one position or view" thing.

Edit: Looks like Nightops beat me to it!

Edited December 22, 2015 by teros135

[MrRick]

If you are just having fun, go for it.

[ihocky2]

I don't know most of the rules for limited, but why not add extended base pads. I thought limited is still okay with 140mm magazines. I believe you can get up to 18 or 19 rounds with extended base pads. Medium courses you may suffer but will be fine on short courses and maybe 1 extra reload on a field course, which you can usually plan for and not lose any time.

[bigdawgbeav]

I don't know most of the rules for limited, but why not add extended base pads. I thought limited is still okay with 140mm magazines. I believe you can get up to 18 or 19 rounds with extended base pads. Medium courses you may suffer but will be fine on short courses and maybe 1 extra reload on a field course, which you can usually plan for and not lose any time.

According to STI a .45 with 140mm tubes only holds 14 rounds.

As a comparison, my Para mags hold 14 with stock springs and followers. Changing basepads, springs, and followers can get me 18+1.

[Chutist]

My EGW Para in .45 with Grams pads can get a couple extra in it BUT... it never seemed to be enough to safely skip a reload. Many of the stages at my local club try to be single stack friendly - so 8 rounds...run...8 rounds. In theory, you could make it but one miss on a popper and that plan is out the window. My Para runs great - but don't fool yourself - for most of us mortals, reloads cost time on the clock.

Yes we play the game for fun... Finishing higher in class is more fun for me, so I bought a .40.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Chutist

[motosapiens]

1.2.1.2 “Medium Courses” must not require more than 20 rounds to complete and no more than 3 shooting locations. Course design and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.

valid point, if it's a 20-round stage, you can only be able to shoot 19 of them from one place.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have a friend who shoots a Para 6" 45acp in limited. It holds a reloadable 18 rounds in the mag. He seems to do alright with it on most stages. The other advantage he has he is using semi wad cutters so he can see the big holes. I have also seen him shoot limited 10 as well. The double stack mags will load faster than a single stack in most cases but a Dawson Ice on a single stack reloads pretty quick for me. I would look at a Para as well, since it may be a less expensive option for you. Thanks, Eric

[mont1120]

How does Para manage to fit that many extra rounds in the same type of mag? I would assume the mag chambers are fairly close in diameter to the STI frame. Running a .45 with 18 would be very competitive. I prefer the .45 over the .40.

[SWprotected]

You can shoot a 45 in limited, but If you are buying a gun just to shoot limited it's better to buy a 40. A 40 will give you greater capacity, ammo is less expensive weather you reload or buy factory. It was mentioned in an earlier post there is a nice looking Edge of the classifieds that would make an ideal limited gun. If I had the 45 already I would shoot it but I would not buy one just to shoot limited.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: When you add Dawson base pads to the Para mags it adds more rounds. The Para mags also have a different shape at the top of the mag allowing more room for more rounds. Thanks, Eric

[Nightops]

How does Para manage to fit that many extra rounds in the same type of mag?

STI's normal capacities are a bit low for the length of tube they use, which is why most people who use them for competition don't run stock STI mags. STI 140mm mag for .40/10 holds 17 rounds, but with aftermarket bases, springs, and follower people fit 21 in them. So you could most likely get a .45 up to 17 rounds and still fit the mag gauge for limited.

You just end up with less flexibility in your stage planning, or fewer makeup shots before reloading, and the occasional 19-22 round stage that will force you to reload where most of the others in your division would shoot it on one mag.

[zzt]

mont1120, I also prefer 45 over 40. I looked at the Paras at the time, but was scared off by the problem my para friends have getting mag parts, particularly followers. I don't know if that is true now, but it scared me off the inexpensive (by comparison) Paras. I also considered building a Caspian HiCap. I didn't know about Single Stack at the time, and I was told you were not allowed to run 10-round mags in a 1911 for score. That turned out to be untrue. Had I known I'd have been shooting SS years earlier. L10 give you a margin for error, but we are not in a capacity limited state, so there are only one or two L10 shooters at any match.

So I decided Limited was my best bet. I shot a lot of limited guns and talked with some really good competitors about gear, requirements, dos and don'ts. Everyone said the minimum mag capacity was 18 reloadable and 20/21 was better. They also said to avoid standing reloads. They were right. 18 rounds gets you through two 8-shot sub-stages and helps enormously when they are back to back and all you have to do is turn 180 degrees to address the second. 20 is a comfort on sub-stages that have a lot of small steel. You can shoot faster and with more confidence.

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you are. I'm 68 with bum ankles and foot problems. I simply cannot run as fast as the 20 and 30 somethings. So even though I shoot in the 90+% range, being 5 to 10 seconds slower than the spray and pray crowd on the long courses keeps me mid-pack. Except for those occasional; back-to-back sub-stages, there is always time to reload while getting to the next.

That being said, I love my limited gun and all the race gear. I'll keep shooting it. If you want to shoot Limited with a 45, wait until you can get one that will allow 18 rounds reloadable. Anything less and you may as well shoot SS or L10 with what you have. It's a lot more fun when your equipment isn't holding you back.

[mont1120]

So I have done some more research, and it looks like MBX now has .45 mags for the STI that hold at least 18, and maybe one more. That will work for me. 18 is all I will need and at my speed, adding one reload is not going to hurt my score once. The MBX site says the length is 141ish in length, so I wanted to ask if the combo of the Eagle and that length mag will meet the Limited box test?

[LilBunniFuFu]

So I have done some more research, and it looks like MBX now has .45 mags for the STI that hold at least 18, and maybe one more. That will work for me. 18 is all I will need and at my speed, adding one reload is not going to hurt my score once. The MBX site says the length is 141ish in length, so I wanted to ask if the combo of the Eagle and that length mag will meet the Limited box test?

In limited there is only a mag length. The box you are thinking of is for IPSC standard, a whole different beast.

[mont1120]

Well that begs the question on how would a 141 mag meet 140 length rules?

[Chutist]

adding one reload is not going to hurt my score once.

If you choose to shoot .45, that's your choice but go in knowing your statement is true... It's not going to hurt it "once". It's going to hurt it on EVERY STAGE that requires that extra reload. Your choice, but go in with your eye's open, does have an impact.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Chutist