Pistol Caliber Carbine. (PCC)

[alma]

Found it

8.2.3 A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal".

Check the Multigun rules. Also, my SBR doesn't fit well on most racks.

Edited January 28, 2016 by alma

[bret]

The name if the rule book is

USPSA Handgun Competition

If you want to get picky about the word Handgun, where does a carbine which is not a pistol belong in a Handgun Competition?

[alma]

It's almost like we have done this before.

5.2.3 Except when within the boundaries of a safety area, or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer, competitors must carry their long guns:

5.2.3.1 Detachable magazines removed.

5.2.3.2 Competitors must use a chamber safety flag, or clear chamber device, that is easily visible externally to the gun when transporting from vehicles or stage to stage. Anyone found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective action shall be made.

5.2.3.3 Unbagged long guns must be carried, shouldered or slung from the shoulder with the firearm reasonably vertical. Match Directors may require this to be "vertically upwards" or "vertically downwards" providing this is made clear to all competitors in a reasonable manner.

5.2.3.4 Long guns may be transported or stored without a slip or case, whether or not reasonably vertical, in a mobile rack or carrier as long as a chamber safety flag is used.

5.2.3.5 Transporting non preloaded long guns from the staging area to the start position and back from where the shooter unloads and shows clear, the gun must be carried muzzle vertically upwards with the bolt locked open or closed on a chamber safety flag.

5.2.3.6 Transporting a preloaded shotgun from the preload table to the start position the firearm must be carried directly to the start position with the muzzle vertically upwards.

8.2.2 The competitor assumes the start position as specified in the written stage briefing. Unless

otherwise specified, for a handgun start, the competitor must stand erect, facing downrange, with

arms hanging naturally by the sides. For a rifle or shotgun start, unless otherwise specified, the

competitor must stand erect and relaxed, with the firearm held in both hands, stock touching

the competitor at hip level, muzzle pointing downrange and with the finger out of the trigger

guard. Different stages may require the “ready position” to be prone, kneeling, sitting or as

otherwise stated in the written stage briefing. A course of fire may permit a competitor to start a

stage with a long gun mounted into the shoulder and pointing towards targets.

Edited January 28, 2016 by alma

[pkm]

The name if the rule book is

USPSA Handgun Competition

If you want to get picky about the word Handgun, where does a carbine which is not a pistol belong in a Handgun Competition?

My thoughts exactly.

[alma]

The name if the rule book is

USPSA Handgun Competition

If you want to get picky about the word Handgun, where does a carbine which is not a pistol belong in a Handgun Competition?

My thoughts exactly.

That's why you lean on USPSA Rifle, Shotgun and Multigun rules.

The "P" in "USPSA" doesn't stand for Pistol by the way.

Edited January 28, 2016 by alma

[DocMedic]

HOLYCOW guys! Just because its not in the HANDGUN rulebook NOW, doesn't mean it won't be in it the moment PCC gets recognize as a division later. They're not going to Blindly say "OK go shoot PCC" and not give a set of rules, and with rules ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN THE USPSA world, I can take a educated guess that we will see a mirror copy of said rules being brought over to the HANDGUN RULE BOOK.

[Cherryriver]

I hesitate to participate in this any more, but I am hereby going to offer the opinion of one of the most experienced match producers in the southern Great Lakes area, who also wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

This is what he has to say:

"Here's my take on all this PCC stuff. The multigun and 3-gun guys got themselves in a bind, because now their matches are so popular that they take forever. Nobody wants to be stuck on the range for 10-12 hours.

So they look over at the fast-running, very efficient pistol matches running just as many guys but getting done hours sooner and they want to bring their ARs to those matches instead so they can get out sooner.

So now they want to come in on our pistol matches and screw them up with their long guns, so that pretty soon the pistol matches will run as slow as the 3-gun matches."

That's a legitimate opinion of a guy who puts in enormous amounts of time into USPSA match-making. It bears consideration.

[bret]

The name if the rule book is

USPSA Handgun Competition

If you want to get picky about the word Handgun, where does a carbine which is not a pistol belong in a Handgun Competition?

My thoughts exactly.

That's why you lean on USPSA Rifle, Shotgun and Multigun rules.

The "P" in "USPSA" doesn't stand for Pistol by the way.

Put them with Multigun then.

[Sarge]

Found it

8.2.3 A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal".

No problem. We won't be touching a "handgun"

What rule allow's a carbine to be used?

What rule doesn't?

[Sarge]

I hesitate to participate in this any more, but I am hereby going to offer the opinion of one of the most experienced match producers in the southern Great Lakes area, who also wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

This is what he has to say:

"Here's my take on all this PCC stuff. The multigun and 3-gun guys got themselves in a bind, because now their matches are so popular that they take forever. Nobody wants to be stuck on the range for 10-12 hours.

So they look over at the fast-running, very efficient pistol matches running just as many guys but getting done hours sooner and they want to bring their ARs to those matches instead so they can get out sooner.

So now they want to come in on our pistol matches and screw them up with their long guns, so that pretty soon the pistol matches will run as slow as the 3-gun matches."

That's a legitimate opinion of a guy who puts in enormous amounts of time into USPSA match-making. It bears consideration.

Sure it bears consideration but it doesn't mean anything. The people who want it bear consideration and many of them(US.) have been putting on matches for awhile as well.

[bret]

Found it

8.2.3 A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal".

Check the Multigun rules. Also, my SBR doesn't fit well on most racks.

then you need to make proper accommodations for your rifle to fit or find another way to be safely stored.

[bret]

Found it

8.2.3 A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal".

No problem. We won't be touching a "handgun"

What rule allow's a carbine to be used?

What rule doesn't?

there is no rule saying its allowed so its not allowed, what division is it in?

[gng4life]

Found it

8.2.3 A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal".

No problem. We won't be touching a "handgun"

What rule allow's a carbine to be used?

What rule doesn't?

there is no rule saying its allowed so its not allowed, what division is it in?

It will be in the appendix under PCC Division [emoji12]

Sent from the range

[alma]

there is no rule saying its allowed so its not allowed, what division is it in?

PCC division.

Edited January 28, 2016 by alma

[teros135]

We need to be thinking about this a lot harder.

It's still a rifle, in a handgun discipline.

I know a number of people would have "fun" shooting their PCCs, but it's still a handgun discipline and the rifles are, in my opinion, intrusive and unwarranted. Yes, one can rationalize it from one side to the other, but it's still a rifle, and there are places for that.

I shoot USPSA handgun because I want to shoot handgun, on courses made for handgun and without long guns. If I want to be on courses with long guns, I can go to a long gun action match (such as USPSA Multi-Gun or any of the variants). If a PCC division of that (or a stando-alone match) is needed, someone can put it on.

It's not reasonable to try to shoehorn everything/anything that someone wants to shoot into our discipline. Just because you can figure out a way to do it doesn't mean you should do it.

IMHO.

[Sarge]

The problem with putting it in multi gun is there are none of those matches around compared to one or two Uspsa matches every weekend in many parts of the country

[bret]

where I shoot, we have a 3 gun match practically every weekend, in Ruskin they used to only allow .22 rimfire, now they allow .223 so PCC would work good there.

[DocMedic]

...intrusive and unwarranted...

From just reading this forum thread, I see it being overly accepted and wanted.

[RangerTrace]

I hesitate to participate in this any more, but I am hereby going to offer the opinion of one of the most experienced match producers in the southern Great Lakes area, who also wishes to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.

This is what he has to say:

"Here's my take on all this PCC stuff. The multigun and 3-gun guys got themselves in a bind, because now their matches are so popular that they take forever. Nobody wants to be stuck on the range for 10-12 hours.

So they look over at the fast-running, very efficient pistol matches running just as many guys but getting done hours sooner and they want to bring their ARs to those matches instead so they can get out sooner.

So now they want to come in on our pistol matches and screw them up with their long guns, so that pretty soon the pistol matches will run as slow as the 3-gun matches."

That's a legitimate opinion of a guy who puts in enormous amounts of time into USPSA match-making. It bears consideration.

Those hard core 3gun guys might shoot a USPSA match with their PCC once in a while, but I think for the most part, it's gonna be guys like me who like AR's, but don't want to buy a shotgun or learn all the DOPE to shoot out to 500 yards with a 5.56. As long as it's limited to one gun (PCC or Pistol) I don't see how it could take much longer to run a club match.

[T.McDevitt]

We need to be thinking about this a lot harder.

It's still a rifle, in a handgun discipline.

I know a number of people would have "fun" shooting their PCCs, but it's still a handgun discipline and the rifles are, in my opinion, intrusive and unwarranted. Yes, one can rationalize it from one side to the other, but it's still a rifle, and there are places for that.

I shoot USPSA handgun because I want to shoot handgun, on courses made for handgun and without long guns. If I want to be on courses with long guns, I can go to a long gun action match (such as USPSA Multi-Gun or any of the variants). If a PCC division of that (or a stando-alone match) is needed, someone can put it on.

It's not reasonable to try to shoehorn everything/anything that someone wants to shoot into our discipline. Just because you can figure out a way to do it doesn't mean you should do it.

IMHO.

We've been shooting PCC at all of our USPSA matches if you like. No one that I know of ever complained.. Actually every month seems to be a few new ones. And everyone seems to want to try it

[sperman]

We need to be thinking about this a lot harder.

It's still a rifle, in a handgun discipline.

I know a number of people would have "fun" shooting their PCCs, but it's still a handgun discipline and the rifles are, in my opinion, intrusive and unwarranted. Yes, one can rationalize it from one side to the other, but it's still a rifle, and there are places for that.

I shoot USPSA handgun because I want to shoot handgun, on courses made for handgun and without long guns. If I want to be on courses with long guns, I can go to a long gun action match (such as USPSA Multi-Gun or any of the variants). If a PCC division of that (or a stando-alone match) is needed, someone can put it on.

It's not reasonable to try to shoehorn everything/anything that someone wants to shoot into our discipline. Just because you can figure out a way to do it doesn't mean you should do it.

IMHO.

We've been shooting PCC at all of our USPSA matches if you like. No one that I know of ever complained.. Actually every month seems to be a few new ones. And everyone seems to want to try it

So you run an outlaw match?

[PKT1106]

We need to be thinking about this a lot harder.

It's still a rifle, in a handgun discipline.

I know a number of people would have "fun" shooting their PCCs, but it's still a handgun discipline and the rifles are, in my opinion, intrusive and unwarranted. Yes, one can rationalize it from one side to the other, but it's still a rifle, and there are places for that.

I shoot USPSA handgun because I want to shoot handgun, on courses made for handgun and without long guns. If I want to be on courses with long guns, I can go to a long gun action match (such as USPSA Multi-Gun or any of the variants). If a PCC division of that (or a stando-alone match) is needed, someone can put it on.

It's not reasonable to try to shoehorn everything/anything that someone wants to shoot into our discipline. Just because you can figure out a way to do it doesn't mean you should do it.

IMHO.

We've been shooting PCC at all of our USPSA matches if you like. No one that I know of ever complained.. Actually every month seems to be a few new ones. And everyone seems to want to try it

So you run an outlaw match?

They're not part of the official results. More like a side match integrated with the regular match. Runs fine.

[sperman]

Normally comments like that are met with a chorus of "It's either a USPSA match or it isn't. You either follow the USPSA rulebook or you don't." I guess enough people like the idea of PCC so it's OK.

[PKT1106]

Normally comments like that are met with a chorus of "It's either a USPSA match or it isn't. You either follow the USPSA rulebook or you don't." I guess enough people like the idea of PCC so it's OK.

Little different. Instead of a side match afterwards, we're running it with the normal USPSA match. All of the rules apply for the official sanctioned match, we just let people run PCCs as well. There is really no "outlaw" about it.

[aandabooks]

I'm pretty ambivilant about this at the present time. I don't run any matches. Just show up, shoot and help with setup or teardown if possible. When I first heard about PCC I was ready to run right out and buy one. Started doing some research and wasn't impressed with the offerings. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if I ever want to get out of "B" Production/"C" SS, I need to concentrate more on one platform and not start messing around in more divisions and further lengthen my learning curve.

The money I was going to spend on a PCC will probably be better served being spent on bullets, powder and primers.