Nose dive woes

[wbyrd01]

1911 in 40 S&W. Not all the time, but enough to drive me to change something, I get nose dives. It's almost always the first round in a magazine and on a slide lock reload. It does occasionally happen on the first round after a normal reload. Some days it doesn't happen at all, and when it does happen it's usually only once during a 4-stage match. But that one time costs me valuable seconds. I'm shooting the Western States Single Stack Classic next month and don't want it to happen at all. Using Tripp 10mm 10-round magazines. It happens with factory ammo and my reloads at 1.180 and 1.200 using both Precision Delta RNFP and Bayou Bullets TCG, 180gr.

I'm thinking of trying out the Berry's 180gr RN bullets hoping that not having the flat point will help get it up the feed ramp but am open to more suggestions if they're out there.

Here's a pic, this is a Bayou Bullet 180gr TCG loaded at 1.200. That flat point hits the feed ramp and it is stuck. Clearing that requires locking the slide to the rear, pulling the mag out and putting a new one in.

I appreciate any advise!

[bountyhunter]

I had a Para 1640 that had chronic nose dive type jams and I ended up having to recut the feed ramp to extend the lower "porch" a little bit. It basically depends where the mag body is with respect to the barrel. Sometimes changing the mag catch can raise the mag a bit.

BTW: guns that have that problem may "knock" the bullets in a little past the crimp even if they do chamber the round. I hand cycled some rounds in mine and then put calipers on the OAL and found that out.

[Bud White]

Does it do it with 1 mag or all?

[superdude]

The easy fix would be a round nose bullet in the top 1 or 2 rounds in your magazine.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Check the feed lips are 0.394" front to back. Try a little more crimp on the bullet loaded to 1.180"OAL. Try a 14lb recoil spring. Take some tension out of the extractor. Thanks, Eric

[Red Ryder]

9 mm nose dives too. A long time reloader and shooter told me to shorten my oal to 1.125 in 9mm. Everyone here says to make it longer, out to 1.165. ????

[Red Ryder]

I think it has to do also with too much mag spring tension. Try loading fewer rounds in the mag and see if the problem gets better.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Red Ryder

[Shadow]

Have the feed ramp re-cut to the correct angle. Which manufacturer?

[wbyrd01]

The problem absolutely gets better with fewer rounds in the mag. If I load 10 it happens every time (which I never do), loading 9 in happens about 80% of the time, loading 8 it's only about 5% of the time, and it never happens with fewer than 8 in the mag.

The frame is a Kimber 9mm, the barrel is a Nowlin in a Caspian slide.

[superdude]

The problem absolutely gets better with fewer rounds in the mag. If I load 10 it happens every time (which I never do), loading 9 in happens about 80% of the time, loading 8 it's only about 5% of the time, and it never happens with fewer than 8 in the mag.

The frame is a Kimber 9mm, the barrel is a Nowlin in a Caspian slide.

Sounds normal. The more rounds that are in the magazine, the greater the nosedive. http://38super.net/Pages/Nosedive.html

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I use 45acp mags in my 40 single stack. The feed lips are 0.394" wide. That allows the first round to come up higher making it easy to feed. If the extractor tension is too much or the hook is catching the round it will not allow the round to come up and then the slide will force the round into the feed ramp. How long is the tip on the ejector? Thanks, Eric

[andrewtac]

Correct above, more rounds the worse. The angle gets flatter with more rounds. Not much you can do about that.

Things I did. Round nose only, I use ibjheads or bayou 200 round nose. Load long, I think close to 1.2.

Polished the feed ramp, I think I went 800,1200,2000,3000 then dremal and felt with polish compound.

My ramp overhung the magwell and bullets hit the overhang, I moves it back and put a slight radius on it.

Raised mag release.

Also, bullets were hitting the slide release had to clearance it.

[mjts]

A raised magazine release from EGW or Dawson Precision may help. The feed ramp may also need to be re-profiled.

Mike

[beretta391]

The EGW mag catch will allow the magazine to sit a little higher and may help. It allows the bullet to sit high enough to avoid some feed ramp issues .

Had a similar problem with my trojan and Tripp 10 round mags.

You might also consider trying 45 magazines for the .40. They solved my feeding issues completely. And if I am not mistaken, single stack major is 8 rounds so you would be good to go.

Good luck...

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/magazine-release-parts/magazine-releases/1911-auto-heavy-duty-magazine-catch-prod27432.aspx

Edited October 7, 2015 by beretta391

[kcd19]

i had similar issues with the same mags, even with Bayou 200 RN loaded to 1.200. that first round would nosedive every now and then.

for me, a SVI "raised" mag catch + 15# recoil spring solved it completely. I don't currently find that mag catch on SVI's site, but it was D/T for a button, which was what sealed the deal over the EGW catch, for me.

once installed, it raised the mags high enough that the bodies were contacting the slide release, so i had to re-profile the bottom side of that to create some clearance, but it's been about 4k flawless rounds since i made that switch.

i've used both Berry's 180 RN + Bayou 200 RN, with preference to the Bayous. both feed well with my setup.

[andrewtac]

I forgot I also went with a progressive spring and up one pound. I think I had traditional 12 and went 13 progressive.

[GrumpyOne]

The problem absolutely gets better with fewer rounds in the mag. If I load 10 it happens every time (which I never do), loading 9 in happens about 80% of the time, loading 8 it's only about 5% of the time, and it never happens with fewer than 8 in the mag.

The frame is a Kimber 9mm, the barrel is a Nowlin in a Caspian slide.

Sounds normal. The more rounds that are in the magazine, the greater the nosedive. http://38super.net/Pages/Nosedive.html

Very good article! Very informative, as usual! Thank you for writing and posting it!

[superdude]

The problem absolutely gets better with fewer rounds in the mag. If I load 10 it happens every time (which I never do), loading 9 in happens about 80% of the time, loading 8 it's only about 5% of the time, and it never happens with fewer than 8 in the mag.

The frame is a Kimber 9mm, the barrel is a Nowlin in a Caspian slide.

Sounds normal. The more rounds that are in the magazine, the greater the nosedive. http://38super.net/Pages/Nosedive.html

Very good article! Very informative, as usual! Thank you for writing and posting it!

You're welcome. Thank you for the kind words.

[GB3]

Are you running any sort of shock-buff? If so, try running the gun without it. I found that one of my guns wouldn't reliably feed the first round with the extra .100" taken out of the slide stroke. I removed the aluma-buff and the gun ran like a champ. This was running 165 gr Blue bullets at 1.160", tripp mags and a 12 lb spring.

[jcc7x7]

Is the bottom of the ramp on your barrel overhanging into the mag well.

Open the slide, lock it open and move the barrel back and forth to see if it is overhanging.

If it is your rounds are catching on the bottom of the feed ramp, I had to remove this "ledge" and re profile my feed ramp.

Also

If it is, you may find that the last bullet in the mag well is getting a "smile" on it from hitting the bbl

Word on the street is Tripp will solve this problem for you, especailly since your using his mags

from what I hear at a very reasonable price.

good fortune with it

[fishsticks]

Following this thread as I've been working on a similar issue with a new to me Dan Wesson using Tripp 10mm magazines. Loading to 1.18+ seems to have solved it.

[mach1soldier]

Raised mag catch will help some. I ended up re-cutting my Trojan to a 30 degree feed ramp. Will feed with 10, 9, 8 and with a 10lb recoil spring. Smooth as butter.

Speaking of mag catches, Every .001 I raised the mag, I got .0015 high hit on the feedramp roughly. Depending on how low it is hitting, you might fix it with this.

I never tried the .45 mag route but many people swear by it.

[wbyrd01]

Let's see if I can answer some of these questions. I appreciate all the advice so far guys!

I'm currently running a 14lb recoil spring. I'll try a 15 and see if that helps.

Does the mag release that Dawson sells raise the mags? I couldn't tell by the description.

The feed ramp hangs over a tiny bit, about the width of a fingernail.

I'm not running a shock buff.

I am running an Aftec extractor. Don't remember if it has both springs in or not. I'll check that to see if I can remove one if I am.

For you guys that are using 200gr RN, can you tell me the difference in recoil vs a 180gr? Care to share your load data?

I really would like to get the gun to function with 10 rounds in case I ever want to shoot minor with it. I do have a 9mm slide for it which functions perfectly but 40 minor would be cool too!

Thanks again for the help!

Edited October 8, 2015 by wbyrd01

[wbyrd01]

Raised mag catch will help some. I ended up re-cutting my Trojan to a 30 degree feed ramp. Will feed with 10, 9, 8 and with a 10lb recoil spring. Smooth as butter.

Speaking of mag catches, Every .001 I raised the mag, I got .0015 high hit on the feedramp roughly. Depending on how low it is hitting, you might fix it with this.

I never tried the .45 mag route but many people swear by it.

You're running a 10lb recoil spring in a 40? I have some 45 mags so I'll give those a try and see how it goes.

[superdude]

If 180 grain and 200 grain bullets are fired at the same power factor with the same powder, the 200 grain will produce less recoil and feel softer. http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-gives-edge/