9x45 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) How hard is it to read the rules, follow them and expect everyone to do the same,even the Grey beards? Just because someone has been doing something a long time doesn't mean they are doing it right. Not arguing, it's called having a discussion, if you think it is arguing, stay out of it. Sounds like you have less than 1 year in the game. What's your classification? Are you a certified RO? And you are arguing with a respected senior member. Wind and rain in your argument could be interference. Edited January 25, 2016 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 How hard is it to read the rules, follow them and expect everyone to do the same,even the Grey beards? Just because someone has been doing something a long time doesn't mean they are doing it right. Not arguing, it's called having a discussion, if you think it is arguing, stay out of it. Sounds like you have less than 1 year in the game. What's your classification? Are you a certified RO? And you are arguing with a respected senior member. Wind and rain in your argument could be interference. What does my classification matter? There are a GM's that aren't R.O.'s, does that mean they have more credibility than a Range Officer or CRO? What is your classification and certification level? Good to know rain and wind is an external interference so next time I shoot in the rain with bagged targets I should get a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Good to know rain and wind is an external interference so next time I shoot in the rain with bagged targets I should get a reshoot. Nope: 2.3.5 During inclement weather, the Range Master may order that paper targets be fitted with transparent protective covers and/or overhead shelters, and this order is not subject to appeal by competitors (see Rule 6.5.1). Such items must be applied and remain fitted to all affected targets for the same period of time, until the order is rescinded by the Range Master. Edited January 25, 2016 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Good to know rain and wind is an external interference so next time I shoot in the rain with bagged targets I should get a reshoot. now you are just trolling, or perhaps you have not read the rulebook. If the rain or wind causes a target or prop to malfunction, you might get a reshoot. If it just gets sand in your panties and makes you uncomfortable, then suck it up, buttercup, no reshoot for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Good to know rain and wind is an external interference so next time I shoot in the rain with bagged targets I should get a reshoot. Nope: 2.3.5 During inclement weather, the Range Master may order that paper targets be fitted with transparent protective covers and/or overhead shelters, and this order is not subject to appeal by competitors (see Rule 6.5.1). Such items must be applied and remain fitted to all affected targets for the same period of time, until the order is rescinded by the Range Master. Apparently wind and rain is not an external factor that can cause interference. We shoot in the rain, the State Championship was bad, the people that shot in the rain their scores reflected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Apparently wind and rain is not an external factor that can cause interference. We shoot in the rain, the State Championship was bad, the people that shot in the rain their scores reflected it. You are still wrong. Wind and rain *can* be external factors that can cause interference in specific instances, but usually they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frgood Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 If someone yells stop from the gallery but are not range officers running the shooter, what is the basis of a reshoot? It was not a range officer that stopped the shooter. 8.6.4 I"m wondering if 8.6.2 might apply as well... Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 If someone yells stop from the gallery but are not range officers running the shooter, what is the basis of a reshoot? It was not a range officer that stopped the shooter. 8.6.4 I"m wondering if 8.6.2 might apply as well... Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6. Sure could. I can see where someone might try to throw another shooter off their game. Some folks seem to think that is just friendly "talking shit": I don't agree. At one of the places that I shoot, I have seen groups of folks start making all kinds of noise when they can see one of their friends is starting to have a real crappy run. Not real often but it has been seen over the years. The last time it happened when I was running a shooter who was having big time gun problems, the peanut gallery got loud and he heard something and turned around and looked at me. I gave him the poker face and just stood there and he resumed shooting. Had he not continued, I would of said "If you are finished...". The hard part about 8.6.2 would be identifying who did the deed since the range officials should be watching the stage and shooter. I guess it is worth mentioning to the RM so they can see if this is a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Bret, I know who you are. Your'e a 10 match C class know it all wonder shooter with very little talent and lots and lots of attitude. Keep that up and you'll be the only shooter on your squad because no one else will have you. Show some respect for the game and those who have played it for a great deal longer than you have. Talk about respect, or not. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 How hard is it to read the rules, follow them and expect everyone to do the same,even the Grey beards? Just because someone has been doing something a long time doesn't mean they are doing it right. Not arguing, it's called having a discussion, if you think it is arguing, stay out of it. Sounds like you have less than 1 year in the game. What's your classification? Are you a certified RO? I would have made the same comments about you when you first showed up here on Enos. Maybe you've read the rulebook since then, but you answered a lot of rule questions based on what you thought the rules were, or should be, instead of what was written in the rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Bret, I started with Col Jeff Cooper back in 1967, before there were any sanctioned competitions, even before shot timers.I am unclassified in USPSA as I never shoot beyond Level I matches, except for the Multi-Gun Nationals and Superstition Mountain 3 gun. The reason I don't use a real name is because, believe it or not, as nice as I am on the range (my nickname is Mr. Wonderful), there are a handfuls of people out there who would very much like to put a cap in my ass. Something I did or said, over the last 49 years, maybe, I don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Bret, I started with Col Jeff Cooper back in 1967, before there were any sanctioned competitions, even before shot timers.I am unclassified in USPSA as I never shoot beyond Level I matches, except for the Multi-Gun Nationals and Superstition Mountain 3 gun. The reason I don't use a real name is because, believe it or not, as nice as I am on the range (my nickname is Mr. Wonderful), there are a handfuls of people out there who would very much like to put a cap in my ass. Something I did or said, over the last 49 years, maybe, I don't remember. Level 1 matches have classifiers, not hard to get classified, I even did it, I will classify more divisions this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) I'm not about to do a count but a quick review of the forum reveals that most people on here don't use their real name ... in fact someone started a thread a while back asking people to post what there screen name meant or where it came from .... And no one has ever figured out where mine came from without an explination ... Edited January 26, 2016 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frgood Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 If someone yells stop from the gallery but are not range officers running the shooter, what is the basis of a reshoot? It was not a range officer that stopped the shooter. 8.6.4 I"m wondering if 8.6.2 might apply as well... Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6. Sure could. I can see where someone might try to throw another shooter off their game. Some folks seem to think that is just friendly "talking shit": I don't agree. At one of the places that I shoot, I have seen groups of folks start making all kinds of noise when they can see one of their friends is starting to have a real crappy run. Not real often but it has been seen over the years. The last time it happened when I was running a shooter who was having big time gun problems, the peanut gallery got loud and he heard something and turned around and looked at me. I gave him the poker face and just stood there and he resumed shooting. Had he not continued, I would of said "If you are finished...". The hard part about 8.6.2 would be identifying who did the deed since the range officials should be watching the stage and shooter. I guess it is worth mentioning to the RM so they can see if this is a pattern. I've only just recently taken my first NROI class. But I agree with your sentiment. I recall this very discussion where the rule does apply to coaching from the sidelines. This activity is usually a little easier to see and, I think,it involves a proc for both parties. However, Deliberately disctracting from the sidelines is definitely unsportsmanlike. Like you said, at a club match a bunch of friends my trash talk. As an RO, I'm guessing one would have to balance that with the overall nature and makeup of the squad. if there are newbies in the squad some discretionary talking may be on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I'm not sure what this thread is about anymore. Are we just comparing wiener size now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 How bad does a 180 have to be before you'd yell stop from the peanut gallery if the RO missed it? Are you saying you'd never do that under any circumstances?You're right. Ideally, between the timer RO and the scorekeeper there shouldn't be one so bad that the crowd has to call it, but it can happen. But because the RO didn't see it, he can't DQ the shooter, only offer a reshoot due to external influence.Some R.O.'s don't like to enforce the rules, so they let them slide, this is dangerous and doesn't do anyone any good.What would be letting the rules slide in that scenario?If the R.O. on the timer and the secondary R.O. is paying attention and a shooter broke 180 so bad that the gallery had to call it,1. The R.O. isn't paying attention or 2. Letting the guy slide. Neither scenario is good and both are dangerous. Are those really the only possibilities? I'm my experience the PG has called "180s" that were well inside, but the PG was at an angle that looked, to him, to be off. As an RO I've been watching the gun, from a good angle, and I knew it was okay but some guy who was well behind us wanted to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 How hard is it to read the rules, follow them and expect everyone to do the same,even the Grey beards? Just because someone has been doing something a long time doesn't mean they are doing it right. Not arguing, it's called having a discussion, if you think it is arguing, stay out of it. Sounds like you have less than 1 year in the game. What's your classification? Are you a certified RO? And you are arguing with a respected senior member. Wind and rain in your argument could be interference. What does my classification matter?There are a GM's that aren't R.O.'s, does that mean they have more credibility than a Range Officer or CRO? What is your classification and certification level? Good to know rain and wind is an external interference so next time I shoot in the rain with bagged targets I should get a reshoot. Yes, you sound like you're arguing. Stop it. Go to your room <grin>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 This thread is on it's way out. I've waited to see if some of you would back off. I'll remind you one time of the Forum Guidelines. Posting GuidelinesAttitudePlease be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.No trolling. No alternate accounts. Get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Nix this thing, the OP got my answer. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Gotcha. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 And I was just about to tell my real name:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 And I was just about to tell my real name:) No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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