zombywoof Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Introducing my teenage son into USPSA. I have a nice Tanfo Witness Steel 9mm for him to shoot. I don't understand why the hammer must be down on first shot. It seems unsafe (dropping the hammer safely) and a disadvantage over striker fired guns. I've put him in Limited minor to avoid any problems. Why this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Because single action guns , cocked and locked, are not allowed in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Or to put it another way -- because there are four other divisions where SA guns can play. Production was designed to be a home for DA/SA, DAO and striker fired autos. 100s of competitors manage to safely lower the hammer on a CZ designed auto to play in production, if the gun doesn't have a decocker. If you're concerned about first shot accuracy -- the shooter may manually cook the hammer after the start signal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kz45 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Can he lower the hammer to the decock position? Isn't that safer, also less trigger travel on the first shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 If it has a decocker, yes, it can and should be lowered to that "rest" position. If no decocker it must be fully lowered (not to half-cock). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixty Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I don't think there is anything unsafe about dropping a hammer. I've done it thousands of times on my cz and don't think twice about it. I always read about how people worried about it before I got my cz but once I had it for a while I couldn't understand why it's an issue for some. Personally if someone can't safely lower a hammer then I wonder what other things they can't do safely when handling a firearm. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Here's a couple videos of the technique I use that works well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 If shooting Production division you cannot stop on the half notch (decocked position) unless you actually have a decocking lever on the gun. If manually decocking you are required to fully lower the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 And to one more bit into the mix -- if the gun has a decocker you must use the decocker. Manually lowering the hammer isn't an option for you -- at the penalty of dq..... 10.5.9 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading. Exception: while complying with the “Make Ready” command to lower the hammer of a gun without a decocking lever, or while initially loading a revolver with a spurless hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixty Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I almost wish I could put a decocker on a shadow because I have a hard time reaching the trigger but with the hammer at half cock it's a lot easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) ... Edited August 2, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I almost wish I could put a decocker on a shadow because I have a hard time reaching the trigger but with the hammer at half cock it's a lot easier you can can't you? Isn't there a decocker version of the Shadow, ( the Tactical I vaguely recall) I may be wrong but I'm sure I asked our CZ importer here in Australia a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I almost wish I could put a decocker on a shadow because I have a hard time reaching the trigger but with the hammer at half cock it's a lot easieryou can can't you? Isn't there a decocker version of the Shadow, ( the Tactical I vaguely recall) I may be wrong but I'm sure I asked our CZ importer here in Australia a few years back. The 75 SP01 Tactical has a decocker but it also has a firing pin block. Both the firing pin block and the decocker mechanism make for a slightly less ideal trigger than what you can get on a Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixty Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I almost wish I could put a decocker on a shadow because I have a hard time reaching the trigger but with the hammer at half cock it's a lot easieryou can can't you? Isn't there a decocker version of the Shadow, ( the Tactical I vaguely recall) I may be wrong but I'm sure I asked our CZ importer here in Australia a few years back.The 75 SP01 Tactical has a decocker but it also has a firing pin block. Both the firing pin block and the decocker mechanism make for a slightly less ideal trigger than what you can get on a Shadow. Yeah that's what I thought. If I could put a decocker on my shadow it would be perfect for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) It seems unsafe (dropping the hammer safely) and a disadvantage over striker fired guns. You're wrong on both counts. Edited August 6, 2015 by elguapo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Can someone explain to me why is it unsafe to leave the hammer at the half cock notch on a 75B but not on a 75BD? The half cock notch is identical on both. CZ designed the pistol to be carried with the hammer at half cock. That's where the decocker drops it to. And no, "because the rules say so" is not an acceptable answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Can someone explain to me why is it unsafe to leave the hammer at the half cock notch on a 75B but not on a 75BD? The half cock notch is identical on both. CZ designed the pistol to be carried with the hammer at half cock. That's where the decocker drops it to. And no, "because the rules say so" is not an acceptable answer Actually, it is with respect to playing our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Can someone explain to me why is it unsafe to leave the hammer at the half cock notch on a 75B but not on a 75BD? The half cock notch is identical on both. CZ designed the pistol to be carried with the hammer at half cock. That's where the decocker drops it to. And no, "because the rules say so" is not an acceptable answer The rules say what safe gun handling is, and if you violate them, it's a non-discretionary DQ, so you do so at your own peril. I know I prefer to shoot the match rather than watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 So basically you two don't have a clue how the pistols I'm talking about work, so you trot out "the rules" Got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It doesn't matter what is safe. We're shooting USPSA and we either comply with the rules or go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If you're concerned about first shot accuracy -- the shooter may manually cook the hammer after the start signal..... Really? I thought first shot had to be DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If you're concerned about first shot accuracy -- the shooter may manually cook the hammer after the start signal..... Really? I thought first shot had to be DA. More so in IPSC. USPSA just says that the hammer starts down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If you're concerned about first shot accuracy -- the shooter may manually cook the hammer after the start signal..... Really? I thought first shot had to be DA. More so in IPSC. USPSA just says that the hammer starts down. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 If you're concerned about first shot accuracy -- the shooter may manually cook the hammer after the start signal..... Really? I thought first shot had to be DA. More so in IPSC. USPSA just says that the hammer starts down. Very interesting. IPSC has (had the last time I looked) a requirement that the first shot had to be fired DA. If I remember correctly we might have had the same rule from 2001 until 2004, when it was eliminated..... Actually I just looked and the 2001 14th edition USPSA rules required the first shot in Production to be fired DA; in 2004 that was amended to require that a gun could not start in SA mode.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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