FTDMFR Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Say you're waiting for a squad to finish up a stage. A guy on that squad breaks the 180 by a good 45 degrees. That guy's RO either doesn't see it or doesn't call it, but the RO on our squad, as well as half of our squad, all yell stop and tell the guy he's done for the day. Of course, the guy isn't exactly happy about being DQed by a bunch of bystanders. Was DQing the guy legit? My position is that everyone's a safety officer, so yes it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 My 2 cents is that everyone is a RO when it comes to safety. It would be awkward if it was only one person that saw it, but with a good few folk seeing it, I would say the shooter heads home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 IMO, DQ's are not just breaking rules such as overtime parking. There's real potential danger here. We all have a responsibility for safety. My only concern would be someone, well away from the shooter, yelling "stop" and causing the shooter to turn further into the gallery. I'll let more learned members discuss the legalese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 IMO, DQ's are not just breaking rules such as overtime parking. There's real potential danger here. We all have a responsibility for safety. My only concern would be someone, well away from the shooter, yelling "stop" and causing the shooter to turn further into the gallery. I'll let more learned members discuss the legalese. Yes, but that's the same issue with the squad RO, if he really was an RO and not just a guy with a clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 You're a RO for the match, not for just a squad. DQ stands Id say. Probably plenty of butt hurt to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Say you're waiting for a squad to finish up a stage. A guy on that squad breaks the 180 by a good 45 degrees. That guy's RO either doesn't see it or doesn't call it, but the RO on our squad, as well as half of our squad, all yell stop and tell the guy he's done for the day. Of course, the guy isn't exactly happy about being DQed by a bunch of bystanders. Was DQing the guy legit? My position is that everyone's a safety officer, so yes it was. It is NOT the job of the peanut gallery to enforce an earned DQ. Having a bunch of shooters tell someone that are done is wrong. The RO on your squad, is a different story. Had I seen it, I too would have yelled STOP. Had I been the RO on the squad waiting, I would explain what I saw to the RO running the shooter and ask him/her to enforce the DQ. If it was not enforced, the RM would be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 What rule allows someone besides the stage RO's to make a call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 What rule allows someone besides the stage RO's to make a call? My point exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I don't think the rulebook differentiates between ROs on a particular stage/squad. If you're ROing at the match, you're a match official. Same as if I walk by you chamber testing rounds at the safe table -- even if I don't know who you are, you're going home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Range Official ..................A person who is officially serving at a match in the capacity of a Range Officer. These are the people that enforce the rules. As Jester said, A RO is a RO Edited May 26, 2015 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I don't think the rulebook differentiates between ROs on a particular stage/squad. If you're ROing at the match, you're a match official. Same as if I walk by you chamber testing rounds at the safe table -- even if I don't know who you are, you're going home. That is a valid point concerning safety infractions outside a COF, but 8.3.5 (stop command) seems to state that "Any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue this command at any time during the course of fire. " That would appear to preclude an RO *not* assigned to the stage from doing so. Edited May 26, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackinSD Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Somebody breaks the 180 by a good 45 degrees, I beg to know which bystanders would not be yelling? or heading for cover? That said, the DQ should have came very quickly from the RO, who was obviously not practicing due diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 And if he not only shattered the 180, but let one fly and someone was hurt, would we be saying I would have stopped him but I wasn't the RO on that squad? Suppose someone was climbing over the back berm? Would you yell STOP? My understanding is ANYONE can at ANYTIME call an immediate cease fire, in our case that would be 'STOP'. then you explain why and let the RO and the RM deal with it. In this case if they didn't DQ the shooter, then perhaps this needs to go up the chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 And if he not only shattered the 180, but let one fly and someone was hurt, would we be saying I would have stopped him but I wasn't the RO on that squad? Suppose someone was climbing over the back berm? Would you yell STOP? My understanding is ANYONE can at ANYTIME call an immediate cease fire, in our case that would be 'STOP'. then you explain why and let the RO and the RM deal with it. In this case if they didn't DQ the shooter, then perhaps this needs to go up the chain That's a reasonable point, and a good analogy about a person downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 He was DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) And if he not only shattered the 180, but let one fly and someone was hurt, would we be saying I would have stopped him but I wasn't the RO on that squad? Suppose someone was climbing over the back berm? Would you yell STOP? My understanding is ANYONE can at ANYTIME call an immediate cease fire, in our case that would be 'STOP'. then you explain why and let the RO and the RM deal with it. In this case if they didn't DQ the shooter, then perhaps this needs to go up the chain All good point's but you are confusing stopping someone and DQíng someone. 7.3.2 References in these rules to Range Officials (e.g. “Range Officer”, “Range Master” etc.), mean personnel who have been officially appointed by match organizers to actually serve in an official capacity at the match. Persons who are certified Range Officials, but who are actually participating in the match as regular competitors, have no standing or authority as Range Officials for that match. Such persons should therefore not participate in the match wearing garments bearing Range Official insignia. 10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident, on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible. Edited May 26, 2015 by terrydoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Was this a local match? I only ask because usually there are no set ROs at each stage, but rather an RO shooting with the squad. In either case, I would say any designated RO or Certified RO would be well within the rules to issue the DQ for a 180 violation, regardless of squad shooting the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Local match, L1, with self-squadding, with a guy in each squad acting as RO. Edited May 26, 2015 by FTDMFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenoShooter Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It's an RO issue. If the shooter was stopped by the crowd there would be an interference call and the shooter would get a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explosivewhale Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This happened over the weekend. Bystanders called out a broken 180. Hell I caught it too but the RO didn't. For reasons of safety, the shooter was sent home even though the RO didn't call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explosivewhale Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Safety is #1 in concern when shooting. I don't care who you are, if you sabatoge safety, you're going home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Running a local match, yes, anyone can, and should stop someone for a safety infraction. To fail to do so is negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 How far do you take the squad DQ? Can a member of the audience issue a DQ for finger in the trigger guard? Would you support that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 safety is #1, stop should be issued by peanut gallery, but DQ??? Lets say the clock RO says he didnt and the gallery says he did. Doesnt the clock or scoring RO have the best vantage point. Perhaps the gallerys angle is different from the ROs down range. I agree, if there is a potential saefty issue a stop should be called, DQ, not so sure unless the RO concures . And what about what Gary just said, slippery slope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Gary, I did not say "issue a DQ". I said "stop someone for a safety infraction." Safety first, rules second. If that is not something you agree with, feel free to not shoot at my range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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