How to shoot your Rifle like a pistol?

[DocMedic]

So one of the things I struggle with is shooting my rifle like it’s a pistol on paper past 15yards. I started to notice this at Noveske this year, If paper was past 15 or so yards I would do the usual 2 shots on paper and move on, but the 2 shot splits felt slow and clunky. I would say my splits where in the .4-.5s range, mostly from moving and shooting. But it’s to the point where if I’m forced to stand still for a target array i will just shoot one shot on paper at those distances since I'm calling my shots well and because of this I'm actually faster than I would be if I tried to double tap, so far I’ve only done this at local matches as i would rather take a extra .5 of a sec to avoid a 5 sec penalty. To give you a example of what I mean, here is stage 6 at FB3G,

https://www.facebook.com/#!/video.php?v=10203584742753533

as you can see i'm not very fluid on how I move and shoot the paper on the stage. I could shoot this x2 as fast with a pistol. x3 times with my open gun.

So anyways what type of drills should I practice?

[dcloudy777]

I'm probably the last person on this forum to be giving shooting tips (I'm not good... ask around).

However, close-in rifle is one aspect of the game that I'm actually pretty decent at, so I'll throw some input your way.... it's worth every penny you'll pay for it, I promise.

Because the rifle is capable of such precision, a lot of shooters have a tendency to want to use that capability and make shots more precise than what they really need, which can translate into shots happening slower than they could be.

Basically, don't be afraid to use the whole target and use the "hammer" theory instead of the "double tap" theory. Think "one sight picture, two trigger pulls".

Start out just getting your trigger finger faster. Just a simple 15-20 yard target, One sight picture, two trigger pulls as fast as you can. Then go faster, and faster. With a good trigger, .15 splits are fairly easy even for a ham-fist like me.

When you get down around .15 (or faster), pay attention to how far apart the bullet impacts are. That's your "margin of hammer error". It's probably going to be pretty consistent.

Then add in movement, and see what happens to that "margin of hammer error". It's going to get bigger, but probably not a whole lot bigger. Move faster. Increase speed until your "margin" gets too big to reliably keep both shots on the target. That's how fast you can move. The more you practice, the faster you'll be able to move and still keep both shots of a "hammer" on the target.

Edited October 10, 2014 by dcloudy777

[Hi-Power Jack]

+1. Sounds like Dcloudy nailed it. :bow: :bow:

[jamesb74]

Nice description Dcloudy!

[mulrick]

Dcloudy nailed it. I too am not a fantastic shooter, and was struggling with this as well. I did a routine similar to this and I have managed to normally stay quick on the cqb stuff. I come from a more precision background so I was never as quick as I would like because I tend to shoot more "accurately." I do not intend to say that speed and accuracy can't be one in the same. I just lingered on my shots longer than I should. Basically grouping tight little clusters vs just getting two hits.

I might add, that I practiced this same technique only starting with my .22 upper. The no perceived recoil got my confidence up and allowed me to run 500 rounds a session. Then when i got really fast with the .22, then I'd run it centerfire. Made the practice more worthwhile... at least for me. I still slow down in matches a bit, but it did help me move up a few spots in the standings lately.

[aquaticvisions]

Are you shooting with one eye closed?

[Stlhead]

One sight picture and 2 trigger manipulations is nothing more than one aimed shot and one unaimed shot. Even with .15 rifle splits there is time to see the sights and call your shots. Shooting the rifle is the same as shooting the pistol in that respect, the main difference functionally is that the sights will most likely not leave the target during recoil so your splits are that much faster. When you are shooting on the move is when Calling your shots and seeing your sights will pay the biggest dividend with the rifle.

[AustinT]

One sight picture and 2 trigger manipulations is nothing more than one aimed shot and one unaimed shot. Even with .15 rifle splits there is time to see the sights and call your shots. Shooting the rifle is the same as shooting the pistol in that respect, the main difference functionally is that the sights will most likely not leave the target during recoil so your splits are that much faster. When you are shooting on the move is when Calling your shots and seeing your sights will pay the biggest dividend with the rifle.

This man knows of what he speaks. At .15 I may not be able to aim the second shot, but I will know if it's where I wanted it or not, and if I need to pull the trigger a third time.

[mike cyrwus]

One sight picture and 2 trigger manipulations is nothing more than one aimed shot and one unaimed shot. Even with .15 rifle splits there is time to see the sights and call your shots. Shooting the rifle is the same as shooting the pistol in that respect, the main difference functionally is that the sights will most likely not leave the target during recoil so your splits are that much faster. When you are shooting on the move is when Calling your shots and seeing your sights will pay the biggest dividend with the rifle.

yee ha! some good info on enos.

just because your gun is 5 pounds heavier and has a magnified optic doesnt mean you can or should slap on it like a 94% master class shooter running can you count..

If you cant hose a pistol like a boss on a pistol stage and throw down a m-gm type hit factor, dont try to do it with a rifle.

[JPeel]

For a right handed shooter an array on the right side with either rifle or shotgun is much harder to do on the move than an array on the left. The array in the video is on your right side and you're right handed. You shot that on the move about as good as I've seen in any of the other top competitors videos.

If the array was on your left would you have been able to shoot it faster?

[P.E. Kelley]

Considering our longguns have us in contact with several more points over our pistolas, one can get away with slapping the trigger twice

and hoping for a pair on most any target out to maybe 15 yards. The test (and winners do) is to be able to shoot .15-.20 splits knowing you made

two good shots on paper from 15 to 30 yards.

Want to get better at this??? Shoot a lot more with your eyes in full feedback mode. Watch...recognize and learn.

[kurtm]

I can't think of a time I ever fired two shots with one sight picture with a carbine....or rifle. I always see the sight for both presses, and I pretty much know where they go. Maybe iron sights are just much easier to use in this regard, but I seem to be able to do it with a scope as well. I think two slaps at the trigger is a quick way to a failure penalty....even for "the winners". My advice, which was fairly unsolicited is that you are over controlling the gun, holding on to it too tight, grasping the fore end way too hard, pulling pushing...etc. hard to be fast hunched over and tense, but what do I know?

[MarkCO]

I won't tell you what I do...you have already received enough advice, some of it contrary to others. It is now time for 500 rounds of ammo, a timer and a notebook at the range. Try the techniques and see what the timer and bullet holes prove is best.

[thermobollocks]

Missing the Open brake already?

[EkuJustice]

I think it depends a ton on how far the target is as to what will work. Up close I have no issue taking 2 shots on on sight picture as I know enough about how the gun moves that it's gonna be there on the target. On the little farther stuff i will take 2 sight pictures but have no problem breaking that second shot as soon as I see it on brown It kinda takes effort to do and a different mindset from the other shooting sports especially if your shooting uspsa minor to accept brown over waiting for the alphas. For 3 gun I'm willing to take a much looser sight picture

[steviesterno]

I use different aiming points on my reticle for distance. I run a Trijicon with Chevron, and while it may not be the best for 400+ it is amazing out to 200 yards for me. I know that whenever the ^ is anywhere on brown I'm good to go, and drop rounds fast. If I have a tiny plate at distance, I can use the tip of it to make an accurate shot.

I did the same drill as above, and to get started i would do 10-15 round dumps as fast as I could. Once I started wandering out of the A zone I knew how fast I could get there. I also know how hard I can hammer at 20-50 yards and still make hits, and inside 30 yards it should be blazing fast. Try it with a 22 and see how it goes, what you can really get away with.

I also have a heavy barrel and good comp, so I know that the gun is not going crazy off target at all inside 100 yards, and can double or take 2 aimed shots with quick splits. Try and and push it and see how hard you can really go!

[ku1185]

One sight picture and 2 trigger manipulations is nothing more than one aimed shot and one unaimed shot. Even with .15 rifle splits there is time to see the sights and call your shots. Shooting the rifle is the same as shooting the pistol in that respect, the main difference functionally is that the sights will most likely not leave the target during recoil so your splits are that much faster. When you are shooting on the move is when Calling your shots and seeing your sights will pay the biggest dividend with the rifle.

I'm new to shooting (especially rifles) but I agree with this. No matter how fast I try to pull the trigger (usually about .17-.20 splits), I get a sight picture for every shot (when I'm doing things right, anyway) using a red dot. The sights might not be lined up with the target but I can still see it and call the shot after it goes off. I was under the impression that tracking the sight like this was fundamental.

Just yesterday, actually, I was testing "double taps" and "controlled pairs" (i.e., two aimed shots) from about 12 yards on a (don't laugh!) brown paper shopping bag target and found that the difference in splits was only about .05-.1 seconds while considerably improving the size of the groups. I'll probably use the latter technique when I go to my first rifle match next month, and see from there.

FYI my gear: Anderson lower/JSE upper M16A4 with Miculek comp, YHM freefloat hardguard, JP reduced weight trigger springs.

Edited October 14, 2014 by ku1185

[P.E. Kelley]

The real bottom line is...shot splits don't add up to squat when compared to target to target splits. THAT is where time is lost!

[ku1185]

The real bottom line is...shot splits don't add up to squat when compared to target to target splits. THAT is where time is lost!

touche

[Sterling White]

Place 6 6-inch pie plate size targets at each 10yd line out to about 60yds or so. With the buttstock shouldered and muzzle low raise the rifle up and shoot 2 rds with lightening like speed on the closest target. Repeat the drill on the next closest target and on out until you have fired 12 rds. You will determine at the end of the drill what your maximum effective range is for playing squirt gun. The goal of the drill is to keep the spread of the 2 shots inside the area the size of a baseball on the pie plate. Anything larger could result in trouble, ie., no-shoots, hardcover, or misses. Give this a try and provide some feedback.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Sterling White

[goat68]

Place 6 6-inch pie plate size targets at each 10yd line out to about 60yds or so. With the buttstock shouldered and muzzle low raise the rifle up and shoot 2 rds with lightening like speed on the closest target. Repeat the drill on the next closest target and on out until you have fired 12 rds. You will determine at the end of the drill what your maximum effective range is for playing squirt gun. The goal of the drill is to keep the spread of the 2 shots inside the area the size of a baseball on the pie plate. Anything larger could result in trouble, ie., no-shoots, hardcover, or misses. Give this a try and provide some feedback.

Practice?

I thought that was what the matches are for.....

[Dan Sierpina]

Practice?

I thought that was what the matches are for.....

Practice is the first two stages of every match. Okay, sometimes 3 or 4.

[fireman489]

The real bottom line is...shot splits don't add up to squat when compared to target to target splits. THAT is where time is lost!

Ive often wondered this ^^^ I mean WAYYYY more time can be lost w missing 1 long range target ?? Considering myself "the newguy" still, I dont take myself too seriously but, I dont even think about speed .. I prefer to think about "process" , running my stage plan & being consistent.

Place 6 6-inch pie plate size targets at each 10yd line out to about 60yds or so. With the buttstock shouldered and muzzle low raise the rifle up and shoot 2 rds with lightening like speed on the closest target. Repeat the drill on the next closest target and on out until you have fired 12 rds. You will determine at the end of the drill what your maximum effective range is for playing squirt gun. The goal of the drill is to keep the spread of the 2 shots inside the area the size of a baseball on the pie plate. Anything larger could result in trouble, ie., no-shoots, hardcover, or misses. Give this a try and provide some feedback.

LOVE this idea, thanks for sharing