My first run in with IsPic

[ima45dv8]

OK, Shannon's wonderful "rant" brought an old memory I need to vent. (sorry for the length)

In the early 80's I lived in Houston, TX, and had just become intersted in shooting. Mostly it was the stand-on-a-line-and-shoot-at-a-single-target stuff, but it was big fun. My buddy and I used to roam the area looking for new ranges where we could shoot. One saturday, he took me a good drive west of town to a remote range. He said to go inside and see if we could shoot there without a membership.

I went into this little building that served as the office, and there was a man sitting at a small table off to the left. No one else seemed to be in the office, or on the range. He looked half-asleep and not too interested in me being a potential customer. When I told him my friend and I were looking for a place to shoot, he asked in a bored, semi-sarcastic manner what we intended to shoot. I told him I had a .41 Magnum and my friend had an HK P9S. "No, no, no," he said, "I mean....what are ya gonna SHOOT?" I was puzzled and responded with the answer I thought he was searching for. I said we would be shooting at paper targets. He got real agitated and started ranting and raving that if we weren't shooting IPSC, we weren't shooting Shit!, and may as well take out pathetic asses elsewhere. He told me how revolvers weren't competitive and if that's all the lousy hardware I had, I should just go home. He talked some more trash I can't remember, but I clearly remember the nasty tone, and the message -- you're not welcome here, because we're IPSC shooters, and you're not.

I went back to the car and broke the news to my friend. "They shoot Is-Pic, or something like that here, and they don't think we should be doing it. He all but told us to get our asses off the property."

Mad, insulted, indignation washed all over me on the ride back toward the city. "Screw 'em!" I said. "I don't know what this Is-Pic shit is, but I can tell you for certain they're a bunch assholes and I won't burden them with my money or my presence again! Ever!"

Fast-forward about 21 years. I'm in a local gunshop near the Atlanta airport when I see a sign telling about their league shoots they have on Tuesdays. And then the league guys start coming in. Without even talking to them I could tell before they ever started setting up stages how much fun they were having, and were going to have. Everyone just seemed to really like each other so much and were so genuinely pleased to be there with their friends. The air was electric with everyone talking about guns and shooting and techniques and strategies and everything else about the matches they had been in recently. I made up my mind right then and there I would come back next week and shoot with these people.

My interest didn't faulter over the next seven days and despite being nervous, I DID show up to shoot. And I was hooked for life on that very first night! I was made to feel truely welcome, and everyone went out of their way to see to it I had a safe and enjoyable experience. I can't thank those folks enough. I'll never even be able to come close.

Later, after I learned this was that same "Is-Pic" stuff, but with an entirely different class of people than I would have ever believed frequented those events, a realization hit me: 20+ years of shooting enjoyment flashed before my eyes. Gone. Wasted. It struck me like a hammer that I had pissed away over 1,700 matches because of one 24-carat bag of sewage who wanted to talk mean and nasty to a 21 year-old kid, and whose only chance of ever approaching GrandMaster was in how well he could shoot his mouth off. I would gladly pony up my VISA card for bail money, just to have a 5 minute Come-To-Jesus meeting with that sonofabitch today. But it will never happen....

So I try to do the next best thing -- make people feel welcome at matches I attend. I sometimes miss the chance, but not often, to introduce myself and shake someone's hand at a match, new shooter or not. But I make a special effort for new folks. And I vowed that if I ever, EVER, hear someone treating a new shooter like I was treated by the first IPSC shooter I met, well..........I've still got that VISA card handy.

[kimel]

Sorry you had such a crappy experience.

If you ever do find that guy you won't need your VISA card. There will be a long line of us there to post bail and treat you to a steak and a few beers. Each with a similar story to tell.

[Guy Neill]

I, too, am sorry you had such a reception. I was Section Coordinator in South Texas in the early 1980's and that is definitely NOT the attitude I or most of the shooters wanted to portray.

Guy

[Flexmoney]

ima45dv8,

They probably had that guys sitting in there by himself for a reason. lol I'll bet nobody else wanted to be around him.

Too bad you didn't run into Guy Neill.

[RKooi]

Believe me, when Mark greets you and shakes your hand you don't forget it. Usually because your hand is swollen....

TX's loss is GA's gain!

[Kimberkid]

You remind me of a story that happened about a year ago at a local indoor range that had me fuming. The long version of the story wont fit on several pages, so I will give the short form.

I was standing in the hallway of this brand new indoor range (my first trip here) and was loading magazines when I saw something that made my heart leap. In walks a 65 yr old grandma and her 2 grandsons (ages 7 and 15). Got talkin with them for just a minute and they said they just came to watch, as they liked guns, but didnt get to shoot much. I decide that I am going to do a good deed and recruit 2 new lifetime shooters. I go over to the guy running the range and ask him if they boys can come in and shoot with me for just a bit. He finds this outrageous and starts going on and on about how it isnt safe for us to all be in this 30 line range at once (we are the ONLY people there) and how they cant shoot without a parent or gaurdian. I remind him that grandma is with them and gladly offer to pay their ranges fees and rent eye and ear protection for them. He tells me in the most disrespectful way possible that isnt gonna happen.

I dont know why it was nessecary for him to turn his back on 2 possible lifetime customers and turn 2 people away from the shooting sports. I would LOVE to have one of those "come to Jesus" talks with that guy. Needless to say, that range/shop wont ever get a dime from me or anyone I know.

[Carlos]

Good anecdote & good advice ima45dv8. During last night's USPSA indoor match (www.shootersparadise.com) I noticed a shooter on the open public side of the range wearing an IDPA hat. Since I shoot both sports, I walked over & asked if he was shooting on the 8PM squad since we were about to start. He responded that no, he was not shooting at 8 but rather he was practicing for a match & then he added: "And its an IDPA match!"

I guese he expected a negative reaction from me, but I simply told him "Cool! Most of us shoot IDPA as well. We have some open slots on the squad & if you want to use our match for practice & shoot it IDPA style, you are more than welcome to shoot with us."

Well, he declined but at least the offer had been made & maybe he'll shoot with us next time. Or not. At least he was shooting an action sport. Hard as it is to hold back sometimes, it does not pay to piss people off.

[rtr]

Thanks for sharing this story ima45dv8. It reminds me how I was first exposed in IPSC, which fortunately was the total opposite of yours. I had recently purchased my first gun, had finally mastered the difference between the end the bullets come out of and the back. I found that shooting cans etc. was getting old. I found my local USPSA club on the web, emailed the president and he was very welcoming, showed up at my first match and was met with the same attitude from him and many others. I cannot overstate how important it is to treat people this way in our sport.

My initial experiences with IDPA were the opposite of this.

[Rob Boudrie]

My first USPSA match was in Rochester, NY at an indoor rance in the basement of a stip mall (defunct years ago). I went in to use the rental range, was told there was a match going on, and was invited in by the SC and a competitor who found a holster I could use for my 1911. All in all a very welcoming group, but I had to guess which targets to shoot since I was told about everything except the "noshoot" concept, and my first stage was a "start in the dark surprise stage."

[XRe]

Funny, I shot my first IPSC/USPSA match at that same range in Atlanta near the airport.... Good crowd down there. Tell Bill and Cindy that Dave Re says "Hi"

Sucks that you had that nasty first experience, but at least you found your way back!

Dave

[RKooi]

I hate to hijack Mark's hate thread but this fits in so well here. I had nothing but a good experience when I got hooked in 1998. The guys and gals at Gwinnett Practical Shooting League (GA) made me feel welcome at the once a week indoor matches. I slowly ventured out to the monthly matches and got brave enough to enter the 1999 Area 6 Championship as it was held in nearby Anderson, SC. I didn't get my app in with my new shooting buddies so I was put on a squad with folks I didn't know. I only recognized one name; I had seen him around the few monthly matches that I had attended in GA but I really didn't know him. I was but a newbie 'C' Limited shooter and he was an Open Master. I certainly wasn't going to bother him here, at an Area Championship. I think he introduced himself first. Nice as could be. He wasn't just friendly, he even took the time to help me with how to approach the stages (believe me, I needed the help ) I was impressed with his shooting talent but more impressed with his demeanor and attitude. I went on to finish down the list in 'C' Limited (some teenager named Tilley won that class that year...) and I don't remember where the Open Master finished. I will tell you that I went on to become pretty involved in USPSA after that. A 3 year stint as a club Prez and 2 years as SC. I credit that to people like this guy. What happened to him? Well he got a new job, and had to give up shooting and he moved away from GA. It looks like he may be getting back into it because he just authored the post before this one.

His name is Dave (Xre) Re. Thanks Dave.

[XRe]

At the risk of further contributing to the thread drift...

Gah.... not to mention that said Open Master shot *MINOR* that match bah.... That was '99, eh? I was thinking it was '98... oh well

Roger, I'm glad I could help, and thanks for the kind words! Nice to see you've come to the dark side w/ that C-more on your heater Who should have *really* been helping you at that match, though, was Mr. Jarrett... sheesh, his finesse on several of those stages was great.

I think this thread, and several others happening at this point, highlight the need to make newcomers feel welcome and to help them out as much as possible.... I'm back to that newcomer status, myself, in many ways (I'll PM you w/ details....)

Dave

[JFD]

I'm a diehard USPSA shooter, but when I'm on a recruiting mission at the club I won't hesitate to recommend IDPA if that seems to be the best "fit" for the person.

I don't know that I'd want to shoot with folks who feel the need to badmouth another sport to a new shooter/possible new competitor.

Of course my secret hope is that they will get bored with IDPA and start shooting USPSA, but I keep that to myself

It's hard to undo a bad first impression, and we need to realize that whether we shoot IDPA or USPSA/IPSC, we are representatives of our sport to the uninformed masses whether we want to be or not.

[chp5]

I hate to hijack Mark's hate thread but this fits in so well here. I had nothing but a good experience when I got hooked in 1998. The guys and gals at Gwinnett Practical Shooting League (GA) made me feel welcome at the once a week indoor matches. I slowly ventured out to the monthly matches and got brave enough to enter the 1999 Area 6 Championship as it was held in nearby Anderson, SC. I didn't get my app in with my new shooting buddies so I was put on a squad with folks I didn't know. I only recognized one name; I had seen him around the few monthly matches that I had attended in GA but I really didn't know him. I was but a newbie 'C' Limited shooter and he was an Open Master. I certainly wasn't going to bother him here, at an Area Championship. I think he introduced himself first. Nice as could be. He wasn't just friendly, he even took the time to help me with how to approach the stages (believe me, I needed the help ) I was impressed with his shooting talent but more impressed with his demeanor and attitude. I went on to finish down the list in 'C' Limited (some teenager named Tilley won that class that year...) and I don't remember where the Open Master finished. I will tell you that I went on to become pretty involved in USPSA after that. A 3 year stint as a club Prez and 2 years as SC. I credit that to people like this guy. What happened to him? Well he got a new job, and had to give up shooting and he moved away from GA. It looks like he may be getting back into it because he just authored the post before this one.

His name is Dave (Xre) Re. Thanks Dave.

That's funny - I had a similar experience when I started shooting USPSA with a talented, experienced shooter. His name was Roger Kooi.

[rhino]

Thanks for sharing the story, ima45dv8.

It would be ironic if the jacka** in the story wasn't even a real shooter. It's not uncommon to meet people in gun stores (either working or just there) who make fantastic claims about their IPSC/IDPA/Whatever shooting, who have never actually seen a match, much less participated in one.

Just a couple of weeks ago I met a guy in a shop who though he would impress me with his 3-Gun shooting, but when I asked him where he was shooting (because I wanted to play too!), he backpedaled and admitted it was on a buddy's private range and just the two of them, and of course neither had ever been to a real match. I invited him to join us at our clubs, but I doubt if we will ever see him.

I think a lot of bad ground level publicity we get is from people on the outside, even when they are pretending to be one of us.

[ima45dv8]

Believe me, when Mark greets you and shakes your hand you don't forget it. Usually because your hand is swollen....

TX's loss is GA's gain!

Hey! I just get excited....

[mpolans]

I don't understand people who turn away new shooters. We need them to keep the shooting sports alive. And for vendors and range owners to turn potential shooters away is cutting their own throat! Unbelievable. My father and I have always encouraged folks to try out action shooting events since our days in the early 90's in Germany.

I can't imagine folks being rude to potential new shooters, or anyone else for that matter. In a way, the IPSC world is pretty small. I bet if we were to play that Six Degrees of Separation game on here, we'd all be connected with some shooter we've shot with locally somehow. Just off the top of my head, I can think of shooters in at least four states that I've shot local matches with on here. I've met shooters I originally met on other continents, I've moved to new places where I bumped into folks I hadn't shot with since I was 10 years old (I'm 27 now). I've even bumped into folks I originally met during a totally non-shooting related, motorcycle parts transaction. Turns out, one of the guys I met while shopping for my car rode motorcycles with Chip McCormick!

Seems too easy for word to get around if you act like a jerk or screw someone over.

[ima45dv8]

OK, there's been some thread drift, and people apologizing for highjacking my Hate Rant. No apologies necessary, folks! The only salve for my wounds is all the great stories I've been reading about other people's good experiences when they first found "the way" (sounding more like a cult all the time.... ).

With the moderators' permission, I hereby declare my rant fully highjack-able (new word?). If this thread needs to be moved elsewhere and they can tell me how, that's cool, too.

As pissed as I still get when I think of that jerk, these good stories of positive experiences wash it all away from me.

Thank you,

...Mark

[tightloop]

Having been in Houston when IPSC was cranking up. there were some idiots around who would have spoiled your day...sorry I did not run into you myself....might have had a good time...

[ima45dv8]

You remind me of a story that happened about a year ago at a local indoor range that had me fuming. The long version of the story wont fit on several pages, so I will give the short form.

I was standing in the hallway of this brand new indoor range (my first trip here) and was loading magazines when I saw something that made my heart leap. In walks a 65 yr old grandma and her 2 grandsons (ages 7 and 15). Got talkin with them for just a minute and they said they just came to watch, as they liked guns, but didnt get to shoot much. I decide that I am going to do a good deed and recruit 2 new lifetime shooters. I go over to the guy running the range and ask him if they boys can come in and shoot with me for just a bit. He finds this outrageous and starts going on and on about how it isnt safe for us to all be in this 30 line range at once (we are the ONLY people there) and how they cant shoot without a parent or gaurdian. I remind him that grandma is with them and gladly offer to pay their ranges fees and rent eye and ear protection for them. He tells me in the most disrespectful way possible that isnt gonna happen.

I dont know why it was nessecary for him to turn his back on 2 possible lifetime customers and turn 2 people away from the shooting sports. I would LOVE to have one of those "come to Jesus" talks with that guy. Needless to say, that range/shop wont ever get a dime from me or anyone I know.

Sad. I wish I could say, "Unbelieveable!", but I'd be lying.

The best I can hope for is it's "rare".

Keep on trying, KK.

...Mark

[ima45dv8]

....might have had a good time...

TL, I have no doubt!

...Mark

[BSeevers]

There are As---oles in IPSC heck there are some in needlepoint or knitting, I am sure.

I also got a very bad welcome to IPSC by some combat/tactical/operator types. That's about all there was shooting then since it was called Combat Shooting. They couldn't run me off. I knew this was the sport for me. So I practiced, got better, bought some hot pink gear(yes I am straight, but those pink mag pads and stuff REALLY bothered some of those idiots)and beat them with a smile on my face. Most of that type are long gone.

Welcome back. I have met a lot of quality people in IPSC shooting.

[Harmon]

pink and neon green magazine slam pads for the 1911 is where its @! at least it was in the 1980s...

my first USPSA match was awesome fun

although i didnt shoot worth a crap, i had more fun than i can remember.

a hot barrel and nothing but alphas on the targets...in a minute and thirty seconds...

before the match i was halfway split between what shooting sport i should shoot, IDPA or IPSC, after my first match, I knew I was at the right place.

[IPSCDRL]

My first USPSA match was in Rochester, NY at an indoor rance in the basement of a stip mall (defunct years ago). I went in to use the rental range, was told there was a match going on, and was invited in by the SC and a competitor who found a holster I could use for my 1911. All in all a very welcoming group, but I had to guess which targets to shoot since I was told about everything except the "noshoot" concept, and my first stage was a "start in the dark surprise stage."

One day I was walking through the cafeteria at work and saw this guy tracing the outline of an IPSC Metric target on a foam lunch tray with a plastic knife. I had never seen an IPSC target before but I recognized it as a target nonetheless. I stopped and talked to the guy and he invited me out to the local club where I was immediately hooked on the sport. That guy was Rob Boudrie now director for USPSA Area 7.

And now you know, the rest of the story.

[iweiny]

Not to defend bad behavior but I just had to pipe in.

I know that here in California most gun stores and ranges are suspicous of new people... I think it is because of all the anti-gun people who live around here. Once you start talking to them and they realize you are not an anti-gunner they lose the attitude.

I am not saying this is right but I know it does happen. These are really nice guys but they (we) seem to always be on the defensive about our right to shoot.

In particular our range has a strict rule about minors shooting only with their parent or legal guardian. In this day and age I really can't fault a range for such rules... It is a sad state we live in... (pun intended.)

;-)

Ira