Newbie starting in Tac Irons....Red dot questions (Primary Arms?)

[derek1387]

Just getting started in 3 gun. I just finished building my shotgun, and pistols. Re-working my SPR AR into a 3gun rifle, and was planning on doing tac-irons. I want to go with a red dot.

Was thinking a Primary Arms Micro Dot. I have used a few in the past and have been very impressed, but was wondering what your thoughts on them were as far as durability and being thrown around

OR, sohuld I just jump into Tac Optics and go with a 1-4/1-6?

Thanks

[alma]

Most people shoot Tac Ops so I guess it depends on what level of competition you are seeking.

[kurtm]

Yeah I got to agree with Alma here, there isn't any real competition in irons divisions. There aren't any shooters in that division that are very good. It is far better to buy a scope than wade in the kiddie pool with shlubs like Casanova, Sechiatano, Kelley, Piatt, Anderson, etc. Good call Alma

Edited June 27, 2014 by kurtm

[alma]

Guess it depends on the club/Match.

Looking at the last local match here for which there are scores 53 of 63 shooters were in TO.

Not surf you should be looking towards Kelley as an example. He had been known to show up shooting pump guns and 308s at matches. Not to mention being left handed; I just can't trust those lefties.

[Stlhead]

In our last local 3 gun match we had 4 open, 9 limited, and 21 scope Tac. Of the top 10 finishers 4 where limited, and one shot a revolver. That club only scores the match heads up, total time, no stage points. 3 gun is about having a good time and personal improvement. Shoot whatever you want to. I don't worry about the lefties, it is those shifty open shooters that are ruining the sport. Those bi-pods, and shotguns that load themselves. They scare me.

[Bryan 45]

We have a couple guys at our local club using the Primary Arms dot. I'd trust it fine for a $30 local match, but I'd be a little hesitant to use it if I were paying travel costs and a $250 match fee.

[bmiller]

I have the PA T-1 copy and an Aimpoint T-1. The glass is much brighter on the Aimpoint,as well as dot clarity. That being said, both were laying on the table and my wife could not understand the $500 differance:). I have the PA on an airsoft that I practice with. In bright sunlight it works fine, at dusk or dawn the glass transmits a lot less light. The PA would be a good choice to see if you like shooting the division or not. I love my T-1.

Edited June 27, 2014 by bmiller

[RiggerJJ]

Irons are the way to go IMHO... althou I am experimenting a bit with the new Burris AR-1X Prismatic, so far so good...

I have trouble with dot type sights and precision shooting, the dot smears into a diagonal line, seems to be something related to my glasses because it doesn't happen when I take them off. Happens with both corrective lenses, and when using non corrective with contacts, and the smear line length changes according to how square I hold the glasses in relation to the sight. This does not happen with a prismatic.

If you are 100 yards and less, a dot is hard to beat, maybe even out as far as 200. But longer than that it is my experience that dots are a detriment. Best overall I have used is irons...

jmho

jj

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Yeah I got to agree with Alma here, there isn't any real competition in irons divisions. There aren't any shooters in that division that are very good. It is far better to buy a scope than wade in the kiddie pool with shlubs like Casanova, Sechiatano, Kelley, Piatt, Anderson, etc. Good call Alma

No kidding.....who wants to shoot against THAT group of geezers!

In jest there of course, but the majority of shooters at the club level will be in TacOps and the majority of shooters at a big match will be in TacOps. Same gear and guns with the exception of optic. If your club does not post scores where you can both see how you compared against your division AND overall, then shooting TacOps will probably give you a better idea of how you are comparing to the local talent. If you have the false notion of always trying to cover your match expenses at the prize table at a big match, you will typically fair better at the prize table (if you are competitive, not mid to lower pack or top 10) if you shoot TacOps. I personally have 3 uppers for my .223 match rifle (TO, TI, .22 waiting to be built) and a .308 for Heavy Optics. I shoot whatever division looks like it would be the most fun for that particular match, or based around that matches rules.

I use an Aimpoint T1 for tacirons, but have considered playing with a Prismatic due to my astigmatism that makes my T1's dot look like a teardrop instead of nice and round. I have a couple PA red dots that are on a beater AK47 Draco SBR, 4.5 .22lr AR upper, and one sitting waiting for a .22 practice upper that is gonna be built. I would trust them for practice and maybe a local match, but would never take them to a big match and expect them to work.

[bmiller]

I have a Pris, too. I am a little better with it at distance than the T-1. But the illumination sucks with the pris. Shot a match last fall on an overcast day with black targets in the shadows and the illumination died after the first shot. Ordered the T-1 when I got home. Already sent it back to Leupold once before this. I have found focusing on the target, not the dot helps with the Aimpoint. I am not an expert, your results may vary.

Edited June 27, 2014 by bmiller

[mulrick]

I have a couple PA red dots. I have one on a Sig Sauer 522 and the other is on a .22 upper. Fantastic red dot for the money, especially with the kick ass AD mount, but I wouldn't shoot a major with one... thats just me, everyone else's opinions may vary. But if I have anywhere from 500-1500 tied up in travel, fees and ammo... I wouldn't use that red dot, I would probably just use a set of really solid irons like the Daniel Defense fixed irons.

If you want a red dot you can trust that wont break the bank, I would look at the aimpoint PRO. It is heavier, but built like a tank, trust your life on it dependable, comes with a fantastic mount, and can be found all day long for under $400.

my .02

[Travtastik]

I use a vortex strike fire 2. I have not used it for anything beyond 100 yards yet. It was on eBay or $130 shipped figured it was worth the try. I don't know how that 4 MOA dot is gonna work shooting flasher at 300 yards.

[cajunautoxer]

There's a guy I shoot with in Houston who shoots limited. He had a PA micro on his rifle. At TX Multi gun hr told me he's had it for over a year and it's been good for him. Heck he hit the 300 yard plates off hand

[Lead-Head]

If I were going to buy a dot for limited div. I would give a serious look at the vortex spitfire.

But a red dot is pretty much a red dot. Eotech, aimpont, vortex. 2-2.5 Moa. Get a good mount.

Within a couple hundred yards magnification is not a big advantage in my humble opinion anyway.

At our locals around here, limited shooters regularly finish in the top 5 overall, out of 60-70.

If you want to keep your man card? Just shoot irons.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Lead-Head

[Alaskapopo]

Just getting started in 3 gun. I just finished building my shotgun, and pistols. Re-working my SPR AR into a 3gun rifle, and was planning on doing tac-irons. I want to go with a red dot.

Was thinking a Primary Arms Micro Dot. I have used a few in the past and have been very impressed, but was wondering what your thoughts on them were as far as durability and being thrown around

OR, sohuld I just jump into Tac Optics and go with a 1-4/1-6?

Thanks

I like the new advanced Primary arms sights with life time warranties and Aimpoint like battery life.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Holosun-Paralow-HS403A-Parallax-Free-Red-Dot-p/hs403a.htm

https://www.primaryarms.com/Holosun-Infiniti-HS402-2MOA-Red-Dot-with-50K-Bat-p/hs402a-b.htm

[larry weeks]

I'm a fan of the EOTech. 1 Minute dot doesn't cover targets when they start putting them a ways out there.

[Malcolm31]

I am new to the 3 gun game as well. I got a good deal on an Eotech and I have been really happy with it. I shot my first match earlier this month and was happy with the red dot. The Limited division was much smaller than the Tactical Optics division, but I was competing with myself and learning the game so I was happy with the Eotech and I can always switch to a magnified optic later.

Good luck with your choice.

[StealthyBlagga]

I have a couple PA red dots. I have one on a Sig Sauer 522 and the other is on a .22 upper. Fantastic red dot for the money, especially with the kick ass AD mount, but I wouldn't shoot a major with one... thats just me, everyone else's opinions may vary. But if I have anywhere from 500-1500 tied up in travel, fees and ammo... I wouldn't use that red dot, I would probably just use a set of really solid irons like the Daniel Defense fixed irons.

If you want a red dot you can trust that wont break the bank, I would look at the aimpoint PRO. It is heavier, but built like a tank, trust your life on it dependable, comes with a fantastic mount, and can be found all day long for under $400.

my .02

^ THIS.

I also have several PA red dots and they are good for the money, but no match for the Aimpoint PRO. By all means run one to get a feel for it, but when you get serious make the investment in a real Aimpoint.

[co-exprs]

I like the Aimpoints as well as the Prismatic. The past month I've been running the new Vortex Spitfire Prism 1x. Same as the Prismatic, but only $300 and has a better mount and is day light, very bright.

[LSnSC]

Try all the non magnified sights you can. The Prismatic was the best of the bunch for me, BUT, I struggled with the small black,dot at distance if the targets didn't have a contrasting background or was shot up. Aimpoint with 2 MOA dot was next best.

I started with Irons, switched to a Prismatic and have recently gone back to irons. I am much better at longer ranges with them, and don't feel the short range speed of the dot is enough of an advantage. YMMV.

[apetrulis01]

I just shot the Area 6 3 Gun Championship in limited. I won using a Leupold Prismatic but I am considering selling it. The Leupold is not day light bright and the long range stage had black steel targets. Granted my times were scored in the top 15 overall for the stage but that is because the MGM flashers at 200 fit inside the larger donut. I am thinking of either going with the Eotech with the AR ballistic drop (4 Dot) or looking at the Vortex spitfire because I have read that is actually daytime bright.

Hope this helps,

Adam

P.S. It is a good feeling when your score would be in the top 15 if not top ten in the Tac Ops Division.

[Stlhead]

I do not use the factory pris mount or the illumination module at all. I just run it black. Love it.

[MarkCO]

There are a few good options besides real Irons and the Prismatic now. The Vortex Spitfire and the Burris AR-1X are getting really close to what some of the top guys who run a 1X optic have been wanting. The ability to focus the 1x optics is huge, especially for aging eyes and corrective lens users.

[mngunguy]

I just shot the Area 6 3 Gun Championship in limited. I won using a Leupold Prismatic but I am considering selling it. The Leupold is not day light bright and the long range stage had black steel targets. Granted my times were scored in the top 15 overall for the stage but that is because the MGM flashers at 200 fit inside the larger donut. I am thinking of either going with the Eotech with the AR ballistic drop (4 Dot) or looking at the Vortex spitfire because I have read that is actually daytime bright.

Hope this helps,

Adam

P.S. It is a good feeling when your score would be in the top 15 if not top ten in the Tac Ops Division.

Have you looked through that Eotech yet? Without the magnifier those dots are all but impossible to distinguish.

[apetrulis01]

Thank you for that. I was wondering with the small dots so close how it would work. Guess I will throw the Eotech out of consideration. Guess I am going to have to go with a 2moa dot Aimpoint or an Eotech with the two dots (50/500).

Thanks,

Adam