December

[3quartertime]

Whoo Hoo!!!  Another chance for those of us that;  don't remember when double stacks took over,  have more numbers in our USPSA ID than our SSN and can't even fathom what it takes to make the Super Squad!!!

Is it the gun that shoots or the shooter that shoots?

The answer obviously lies in physics.  The gun is a physical piece of mass having the attributes of any solid.  The shooter is a big gooey piece of mass that depending on the specifics may have no attributes.  The action of the big gooey mass pressing on the physical mass and the physical mass pressing back on the big gooey mass is equal till dedicated reactionary input by one of the two.  

This proves without doubt that the gun shoots because it is evil.

As a courtesy I'll wait till the end of the month to pick a prize.

(Edited by 3quartertime at 12:57 pm on Dec. 4, 2002)

[Jerome Poiret]

Who cares !    as long as I get 2 As ...

[Jake Di Vita]

It's both. One cannot happen without the other. It's akin to asking the question as to whether the chicken or the egg came first. The gun and the shooter must be one before the event of shooting takes place.

[Thomas Moore]

Is it the gun that shoots or the shooter that shoots?

My gun doesn't shoot, it performs, and it can out perform me any day of the week.

[jhgtyre]

The shooting is.

[shred]

A gun fires. A shooter shoots.

(and sometimes says "Shoot, I wasn't supposed to shoot that no-shoot"

[Mike Dame]

I hope you have a shovel near by,

Gun or shooter?

The definition of shooter, would be " one who shoots" when talking about operating a gun.  But as we all know an IPSC/USPSA match has more then one type of shooting. 1. we shoot our guns, but without the gun there can not be this type of shooting. 2 we shoot the "poop"

with our fellow shooters during the match. 3 some of us even tend to shoot our mouths of when we get a little to confident in our abilities, which usually ends up in a brain fart during the next stage. So going back to the firearm part, the person behind the gun starts the process of shooting, then the gun takes over for the last part of the shot. With out the shooter the gun can only fire if the gun goes off when droped in which case it doesn't shoot, it just fires a round, but without the gun a person can still shoot, just not shoot a gun.

All this talk about shooting is making my finger itchy, I'm off to the range. to do some shooting.

(Edited by Mike Dame at 7:09 pm on Dec. 4, 2002)

[Flexmoney]

I think you guys are going to have to work harder.

jhgtyre took my answer.

[Madmark]

I posess the will to shoot my gun lacks,

my gun posesses an ability to shoot that I lack,

together we discover a purpose for existance.....

[jkmccoy]

When the shooter does not see what is necessary to make the shot the trigger still breaks, the hammer still falls, the gun shoots, and the bullet goes where it will.

When the shooter sees what is necessary the trigger breaks, the hammer falls, and the shooter makes (shoots) the shot that he/she needs.

[Jerome Poiret]

To shoot, or not to shoot, that is the maku mozo question.

[DBChaffin]

According to The American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Edition, the word "shoot" is defined as the following:  1(a).  To hit, wound, or kill with a missile fired from a weapon. . . 1©. To make (a hole, for example) by firing a weapon.  2.  To fire or let fly (a missile) from a weapon.  3(a).  To discharge (a weapon).

I therefore submit that since a gun is the "weapon" mentioned in the definition, it does not "shoot".  A "shooter" is defined as "one who shoots" See supra.  Therein lies the answer to the question.

(Edited by DBChaffin at 10:28 am on Dec. 5, 2002)

[Joe]

The shooter shoots the shooter that shoots.

Joe

[A33435]

I have no gun but a GLOCK so i can make a short replay.

This shooter shoots

and his

glock rocks!

Anyway i also want to say that this is a great forum.

I have been active member for almost a year now.

Before that time i only watched and read sometimes.

For me it all helped to learn a lot about shooting and other things in a faster way than without this forum could have been possible.

And i will keep on learning

DVC

Adrie

[SiG Lady]

                     

<<<<<<<<<<<<^>>>>>>>>>>>>

The gun is a tool that we use

To defend-and-protect and amuse...

The soul and its gun

Are always as one;

Shooter or gun...? Do not choose.

<<<<<<<<<<<<^>>>>>>>>>>>>

                     

[benos]

Ahhh, what a "revealing" thread! This is the most fun yet.

"The answer obviously lies in physics."

lol! That's great stuff! But, like you said 3qt, let's wait till the end of the month to see if you get to pick a prize.

[twix]

The shooter shoots--the gun is just a tool--that lets the sun smile at me--through the holes in the A zone

[Flexmoney]

[ErikW]

*holding up scorecards for shred's performance in the short program*

 9.5

(Edited by Erik Warren at 5:51 pm on Dec. 5, 2002)

[tightloop]

It has got to be some Super Natural Zen inspired trick question that those of us who are pragmatists cannot answer.  So I await the final outcome to see which came first the realization of letting a shot go, or the actualization of that realization.

[Dani]

We don't shoot, we just press a tiny lever that communicate the bullet to start running as fast as she can otherwise she will get her ass burned!!!.

[TommyC]

Hmmm...  Let's look at this from all perspectives...

From the Literal perspective: I would have to say the Person shoots, as has been proven by a post of the dictionary definition.

From the Zen perspective: It is not who shoots, but the shooting that matters.

From the targets perspective:  Who the hell cares?  I'm about to be perforated AGAIN!

And from My perspective: after all the dropped shots on my last round... You call THAT shooting??!!

[kimel]

A gun is an inanimate object incapable of reacting without being given an external stimulus.  This despite what the anti-gun contingent would want the populace to believe.

"Shoot" is an action word (verb) and therefore defines an action or a reaction.  Thus, it is the shooter which provides the stimulus to provoke the reaction and therefore it is the shooter that shoots.

The reaction being, generally, how the H3LL did I miss that one?

You might alternatively ask if it is the shooter or the gun that misses.

In this instance I think we will all agree, unanimously, that it is the gun which misses since we, as shooters, would never actually miss unless it was done intentionally in which case the shot, while appearing to be a miss actually was not a miss since it followed through as intended and failed to hit.

However, we might take this another step further in a rather different direction and blame the bullet itself for the miss since it obviously was defective and its course of flight, even though aimed true and square at an A did indeed become a miss.

Thus, it is the shooter that shoots but the bullet that misses.  This also helps us justify all the misses we are getting with our new blasters since ammo is considerably cheaper than a blaster.

How's that for taking things a bit off track?

[gm iprod]

It's simple really. The Egg came first, just ask any Dinosaur or nearest living relative.

Billiard players also shoot, so the American Heritage Dictionary is wrong. Other than some bars, a billiard Cue is not normally a weapon. So we will use an English dictionary.

shoot, verb

1. to hit, wound, damage, or kill with a missle fired from a weapon.

2. to discharge from a weapon.

3. to fire or cause to be fired (weapon)

4. to send out or be sent out as if from a weapon: "he shot questions at her"

5. To move rapidly.

6. to slide or push into or out of a fastening: to shoot a bolt.

7. to emit or be emitted.

8. to go or pass quickly over or through.

9. to hunt game (with a weapon) for sport or sustinance.

10. to pass over in hunting or searching for game.

11. to produce (of a plant )

12. to record via photograph or other methods of recording.

13. to variegate or streak, as with colour.

14. Sports: to propel or hit the obect towards a goal.

15. Sports: to score

16. to measure the altitude of.

17. to inject a substance or object.

18. to boast, to tell a lie,

19. the act of shooting

20. the action or motion of something that is shot.

21. the first aerial part of a plant to develope from a germinating seed.

22. any new growth of a plant or bud (not the beer).

23. a meeting or party organized for hunting game with weapons.

24. an area where game can be hunted

25. a steep descent in a stream or river.

26. everything

27. an exclamation expressing disbelief or scepticism.

The above notwithstanding, I think it may be the shooter.

TTFN

(Edited by gm iprod at 2:37 am on Dec. 8, 2002)

[rishii]

is it the gun or the shooter that shoots?

it depends, back when my soul was pure, my guns were stock and knelt at the alter of Chuck Taylor,  it was the shooter.

now that I've been seduced by the pleasures of the Dark Side, and use a c-more sited, multiported blaster in the 40 kilowatt range, its the gun, its gotta be the gun, because there no way I would shoot delta mikes.

btw you think I'm watching too much Si Fi.