Nimitz Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 What gives you the idea that no one would shoot it? Sounds like just the opposite to me, lots of people want to slap an optic on their gun and off they go. No equipment race since all you're doing is adding an optic ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This question came up on the Oz IPSC forum a little while ago. Same concept but the original reason was to give Production shooters who are having eyesight troubles something to compete in if they don't want / can't afford to compete in Open. Opinions seemed to be split reasonably evenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This question came up on the Oz IPSC forum a little while ago. Same concept but the original reason was to give Production shooters who are having eyesight troubles something to compete in if they don't want / can't afford to compete in Open. Opinions seemed to be split reasonably evenly. +1 I plan to continue shooting Production for another 5-10 years as long as my vision holds out. I certainly hope we have Production Optics by the time my eyes get too much worse. The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. Production Optics is a logical next step for me when my vision gets too poor to use iron sights. (yes I am already using prescription shooting glasses with dominant eye lense focused on the front sight) Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. I think you misunderstood the statement you quoted? Or quoted the wrong sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin G. Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. I think you misunderstood the statement you quoted? Or quoted the wrong sentence? I think he is saying that if he wants to shoot an M&P w/optic in Open then he's not at a disadvanage because he will classify and shoot against similar scoring competitors. However, that is assuming he never has shot open w/ a specalized open gun and is possibly classified above his skill level using the M&P. Doesn't need to be GM classification to have him competing against higher scoring shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. Might not be bogus to him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Smartass mode on..... Production is the Holy Grail of USPSA. The old argument that Production is "off-the-shelf" is fading. We now have off-the-shelf M&P with tiny red dots for sights. I think you'll be hardpressed to get a radical change like this pushed through no matter how many folks say they would shot optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I think the argument against it is Open is like every other division and weather we choose to believe it or not the gun is only a small part of your overall performance. I have a friend that made master and shot to that level at major matches, with a G35 with just a red dot and no compensator. if you slap a dot on your production gun and shoot open with a couple extended mags you may not score the same as you would with a full race gun build, but you will be much closer than you think you will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 My new "Open" gun. I think, at least initially, I will shoot it as if "Production Optics" existed. 10 rounds in the mag, DA on the first trigger pull, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Very Nice! How's that TS treating ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I know I'm old school, but I think optic production is getting away from the intended purpose of production. Production optics are the future. It will be a new division. It's just a matter of time. I think both of these are correct. I think if you want to shoot production with optics right now, you should shoot in the open division, probably by yourself (except for the real open guns). See if you can get some other local shooters to join you. Maybe you could even get the MD to break out the scores separately somehow at a local match. Demonstrate the viability. Maybe 5-10 years from now it will make sense to create a new division. I would be curious as to how production optic shooters would score compared to real open and regular production. Edited March 21, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. What? I'm competing against everyone. Pretending you only compete against other people who don't practice enough to get better is completely bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Uspsa has too many divisions as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Very Nice! How's that TS treating ya? I haven't had time to do anything with it, so it is sitting in the safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The muzzle blast, high operating pressures and expense of Open are not for me. This is a completely bogus argument, unless you are competing at the grandmaster level. Whatever gear you choose to run, you will be classified, and competing with others at your performance level. I think you misunderstood the statement you quoted? Or quoted the wrong sentence? I think he is saying that if he wants to shoot an M&P w/optic in Open then he's not at a disadvanage because he will classify and shoot against similar scoring competitors. However, that is assuming he never has shot open w/ a specalized open gun and is possibly classified above his skill level using the M&P. Doesn't need to be GM classification to have him competing against higher scoring shooters. Guess I missed this on the first go around. I don't see how loud guns, extreme case pressures and cost has anything to do with what class you are competing at. Most Open guns are loud, obnoxious, running at high pressure and expensive whether you a GM or a U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Uspsa has too many divisions as it is. I can think of one or two other less deserving divisions that I would happily see deep-sixed in favor of this kind of novel and interesting new division. Like anything ending in "10" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) It would work in New York where anything with a compensator is now an assault weapon and illegal. So strictly speaking, if you didn't own an Open gun before the law went into effect, you never can. Might be a welcome change to two groups, young and trendy tacti-cool and those with aging eyes. ^ (we and a few other places still need Limited-10. Of course we're shooting Open-10 now and you only shoot Limited (also 10) by checking the wrong box accidentally, or because you want to come in first shooting against no one.) Edited May 16, 2014 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) My new "Open" gun. I think, at least initially, I will shoot it as if "Production Optics" existed. 10 rounds in the mag, DA on the first trigger pull, etc. Nice! I'm having a CZ much the same done, in my case going all in with a spare shadow slide milled for a delta point, then I can swap back/forth on my SP01 Shadow. As a close to 50 year old, my eyes don't focus target - sight - feet (don't trip!) - target as fast as I think they might have 30 years ago. I'll shoot it Open/Minor when I get it - but will go ahead and load up the mags and take first shot SA since I can - it's all just fun for me. But I'd probably shoot production optic as proposed if it existed. Edited May 16, 2014 by trgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I have thought that an Open 10 division would be fun, because it would re-introduce reloads to Open division. How many stages can be shot without reloading? Quite a few when you start with 29 rounds in the gun. Now I think that production optics would do okay and have a decent number of shooters, especially if magazine capacity was 10 rounds. It makes it much easier for average Joe to walk into the store and buy an optic that fits right in the rear dovetail and boom production optics. That said I don't think that splitting production division in half is necessarily a good plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) ... Now I think that production optics would do okay and have a decent number of shooters, especially if magazine capacity was 10 rounds. It makes it much easier for average Joe to walk into the store and buy an optic that fits right in the rear dovetail and boom production optics. ... Continuing your average joe scenario, he then picks up factory 9mm ammo as well ... seems like there will be home for this setup someday, somewhere. Edited May 16, 2014 by trgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I agree. I hadn't thought about production optics, I had only ever thought about Open 10. That's what I was trying to convey, even if poorly. I think it would be a cool division, and would reintroduce reloads like I was thinking would be fun. I was only concerned with cutting into the pool of Production shooters. If USPSA could do trial run of it and see how it affects the numbers of the other divisions and it didn't dramatically hurt the production division then hey why not let's give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Now that I have an M&P CORE I would be all in for production optics. Of course we have to get the CORE approved for production first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Fatboy Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The M&P core is approved for production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Courtesy of the discussion, I've now changed my vote from not try to TRY....... Hope Z doesn't see this....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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