Wideload Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Don't have anything set up for this hypothetical division today. But would consider shooting it if it took off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Courtesy of the discussion, I've now changed my vote from not try to TRY....... Hope Z doesn't see this....... Courtesy of the discussion, I've now changed my vote from not try to TRY....... Hope Z doesn't see this....... Too late Already posted it on my pet thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Don't have anything set up for this hypothetical division today. But would consider shooting it if it took off. The nice thing is it wouldn't take much to be ready to shoot it, I think that's part of the point. Would be a no gunsmith bolt-on operation to be good to go. Although you can get fancy with something milled in. I shot Open Minor with my Delta Point shadow slide two weeks ago. Am going to give it a go with my P09 with green laser next :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Approved M&P C.O.R.E data: M&P Core .40S&W 4.25 barrel (24 oz.) M&P Core .40S&W 5 in barrel (26 oz.) M&P Core 9mm 4.25 Barrel (24 oz.) M&P Core 9mm 5 inch barrel (26 oz.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcraig Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I vote TRY. IMHO, slide mounted RDS will eventually become a normal fixture on carry guns. Seems prudent to get onboard with a division for them. Not to mention that the gaming community is usually the best place to wring out the issues and advance the technology. Hell, I am totally on board for a Tac-Production division. 1) Mounted working flashlights. 2) Slide mounted RDS. 3) Grip work and magwells. 4) Allow mag extensions. (Use the 140mm dimension rule.) 5) Minor scoring. 6) Belt mounted holsters with drop and offset only WITH a retention device. 7) Mag carrier and holster placement the same as current Production rules. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knedrgr Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Would be game for this production optic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I vote TRY. IMHO, slide mounted RDS will eventually become a normal fixture on carry guns. Seems prudent to get onboard with a division for them. Not to mention that the gaming community is usually the best place to wring out the issues and advance the technology. Hell, I am totally on board for a Tac-Production division. 1) Mounted working flashlights. 2) Slide mounted RDS. 3) Grip work and magwells. 4) Allow mag extensions. (Use the 140mm dimension rule.) 5) Minor scoring. 6) Belt mounted holsters with drop and offset only WITH a retention device. 7) Mag carrier and holster placement the same as current Production rules. My $.02 I think as soon as you go away from exactly the same as production you will be opening the door to gaming way too wide. No magwells, no grip work. Production rules all the way in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I vote TRY. IMHO, slide mounted RDS will eventually become a normal fixture on carry guns. Seems prudent to get onboard with a division for them. Not to mention that the gaming community is usually the best place to wring out the issues and advance the technology. Hell, I am totally on board for a Tac-Production division. 1) Mounted working flashlights. 2) Slide mounted RDS. 3) Grip work and magwells. 4) Allow mag extensions. (Use the 140mm dimension rule.) 5) Minor scoring. 6) Belt mounted holsters with drop and offset only WITH a retention device. 7) Mag carrier and holster placement the same as current Production rules. My $.02 The more customization that is permitted the higher the costs will rise for a competitive platform. Production is doing so well in part because the costs are the lowest of any division, we are just taking that same working model and adding an optic. It helps to keep the costs down which opens the door for a greater number of new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 What is the goal? budget friendly open? That is what keep the cost down implies. You are going to have 1000-2000 in the gun, and another 250+ in a belt and mag pouches and holster. Plus at least 5 mags. What ever that sets you back. No division in this game is cheap to get started in. Most people I see that come in as new shooters can't even shoot production, because they only have two mags. Is the goal to bring in new shooters who already have this type of gun to grow the sport? Could those same shooters have already made a mod that will bump them to open? I bet they most likley have. All I see this doing is shuffling around the shooters, and ending up with less in all the divisions. That said it may be a good division for my girlfriend when she starts shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I'd like a division where I can shoot a gun that can be run on factory ammo, that is 10 round limited so that I have to remember how reloads work and that allows optics 'cause I can still see a red dot. My understanding of production optic fits this bill. This would become my division of choice so I voted TRY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wouldn't shoot it, but that is simply because I'm married to 1911s so its SS only for me. However I do like the division, my girlfriend has really bad eyes so iron sights are hard for her and there is no way I could talk her into shooting a full house open gun, this would be the perfect division. I think a lot of other females/significant others would also like the division, minor ammo with minimal recoil and they don't have to learn sight alignment which cuts out one more thing to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 As I recall, the division in Steel Challenge that allows optics is quite popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 As I recall, the division in Steel Challenge that allows optics is quite popular. That would seem to be the Open division. A.3.1: "All legal firearms are allowed. Optics, Compensators, and any safe holster/position are specifically allowed." There's also Limited, Production, IPSC Production, Single Stack, Revolver, and Rimfire Open (comps and optics) and Rimfire Iron Sights, per the 2013 (current) SCSA rule book. There doesn't seem to be an "optics" division. So I guess everyone with optics shoots Open. Heck, K.C. Eusebio won the 2013 European Steel Challenge with a Glock Open gun recently, didn't he? (They say it's more the guy than the gear...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 As I recall, the division in Steel Challenge that allows optics is quite popular. That would seem to be the Open division. A.3.1: "All legal firearms are allowed. Optics, Compensators, and any safe holster/position are specifically allowed." There's also Limited, Production, IPSC Production, Single Stack, Revolver, and Rimfire Open (comps and optics) and Rimfire Iron Sights, per the 2013 (current) SCSA rule book. There doesn't seem to be an "optics" division. So I guess everyone with optics shoots Open. Heck, K.C. Eusebio won the 2013 European Steel Challenge with a Glock Open gun recently, didn't he? (They say it's more the guy than the gear...) KC has a Glock frame, not a Glock Slide, not a Glock Trigger, has a magwell... None of that would be legal in the proposed Production Optics Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 As I recall, the division in Steel Challenge that allows optics is quite popular. That would seem to be the Open division. A.3.1: "All legal firearms are allowed. Optics, Compensators, and any safe holster/position are specifically allowed." <snip> KC has a Glock frame, not a Glock Slide, not a Glock Trigger, has a magwell... None of that would be legal in the proposed Production Optics Division. That's not the point of the quoted post. Skydiver said there is a division in Steel Challenge in which optics is popular. That's Open. Each of us would shoot what we bring. If it has optics, that's Open. We're competitive at the level of our skill, and most of us aren't going to be competing at GM level. Equipment isn't going to take us there. If we're "C Open", we compete against people in C, until we improve. Perhaps when we get to M or GM then equipment may be more of an issue, but it seems counterproductive to tell everyone they can't be "competitive" in Open without a super-expensive race gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 That's not the point of the quoted post. Skydiver said there is a division in Steel Challenge in which optics is popular. That's Open. Each of us would shoot what we bring. If it has optics, that's Open. We're competitive at the level of our skill, and most of us aren't going to be competing at GM level. Equipment isn't going to take us there. If we're "C Open", we compete against people in C, until we improve. Perhaps when we get to M or GM then equipment may be more of an issue, but it seems counterproductive to tell everyone they can't be "competitive" in Open without a super-expensive race gun. In steel challenge you can shoot a production optic division today. It's called a wildcat division and is permitted for tier I (club) and tier II (state) level matches. What I don't know is what happens to your scores if you shoot in a wildcat division. I would think they are not applied towards your classification because you shot in a wildcat division. I'll see if I can find out more about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyrider8276 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I'm not a production shooter. However, I would probably shoot production optics. I love the idea of production rules with a slide mounted optic, including limiting to 10 rounds a mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBeazlie Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I would shoot production optics because as I am soon to get my Medicare card I would like to be able to see a decent sight picture without having to shoot my open gun which is expensive to feed ( 38 sc), has its own quirks to keep it running, and has a bit too much flash and bang for my taste at this stage in my life. Also with production I can shoot off the shelf ammo- when I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Isn't production optics an oxymoron? Sorry, but I just don't see the point of it. Some of the divisions are pretty diluted already, and you're going to add another one that's probably only going to have a handful of shooters at best, even for a decent size match? Edited August 15, 2014 by ltdmstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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