Production Irons and Production Optics *FIXED*

[jabbermurph]

No bashing....pick one. Easy way to prove if this is a worthy endeavor for the USPSA.

Production Irons---

Current Production rules, 10 round capacity and all

Production Optics--- All current division requirements from current Production Division rules, except:

Slide can be milled to accept electronic sights. No frame mounted electronic sights

Minor scoring

This isn't an attempt to bring in the "Tactical Optics" crowd....although it would draw their interest.

It is a poor man's open. Less expenses in gear and loaded ammo

Edited February 6, 2014 by jabbermurph

[Chris iliff]

I really like it, I'd prefer to allow 1911's along with polymers, but the way you have it is awesome too. Plus it makes it very straight forward and you've basically wrote the rules already.

I really wish USPSA would do this. It is such a great idea!

[mdschappell]

If these are our choices, I don't think too many people are going to elect to stop shooting production, so I don't think this proves the viability of another division. I would be curious to see how many people would abandon production as it is now to shoot in this new division. I personally don't get it, especially with the capacity increase which makes it even closer to open.

[jabbermurph]

If these are our choices, I don't think too many people are going to elect to stop shooting production, so I don't think this proves the viability of another division. I would be curious to see how many people would abandon production as it is now to shoot in this new division. I personally don't get it, especially with the capacity increase which makes it even closer to open.

The point of the poll is to prove that it wouldn't hurt Production in it's current form.

It isn't even close to OPEN, other than the optic.

Open guns have almost x2 capacity, major scoring, different allowances for gear and gear placement.

[a.roberts]

Production Optics--- All current division requirements from current Production Division rules, except:

1) Slide can be milled to accept electronic sights. No frame mounted electronic sights

2) Start capacity of no more than 16+1. Magazine capacity no more than 16.

Every gun still has to make weight and fit the box or.... some other plan?

[jabbermurph]

Production Optics--- All current division requirements from current Production Division rules, except:

1) Slide can be milled to accept electronic sights. No frame mounted electronic sights

2) Start capacity of no more than 16+1. Magazine capacity no more than 16.

Every gun still has to make weight and fit the box or.... some other plan?

Must maintain dimensions and weight of the stock pistol other than the Optic which can only be fitted to the slide.

Edited February 6, 2014 by jabbermurph

[The Antichrome]

All safe and range worthy guns are already in Open.

Then, if the gun and equip meets certain simple criteria, they can be divided out into Divisions.

Open means open, not just red dots, comps and big sticks.

If you want to shoot some oddball configuartion that doesnt fit into an existing Division, then shoot Open.

We need less Divisions, not more.

[jabbermurph]

All safe and range worthy guns are already in Open.

Then, if the gun and equip meets certain simple criteria, they can be divided out into Divisions.

Open means open, not just red dots, comps and big sticks.

If you want to shoot some oddball configuartion that doesnt fit into an existing Division, then shoot Open.

We need less Divisions, not more.

So you would stop shooting Production if this change happened?

[leas327]

Why should production optics get more bullets? Makes it sound like open lite to me.

I'm not completely against it but it would have to be the same rules as production with the exception of the slide mounted optic.

With 16+1 that have to fit in the box you pretty much limit the division to 9 mm guns. If you are serious about bringing in ccw optic guys or tactical people you would have to knock the capacity down to whatever a .45 glock, sig, xd, or m&p holds.

Edited February 6, 2014 by leas327

[jabbermurph]

All safe and range worthy guns are already in Open.

Then, if the gun and equip meets certain simple criteria, they can be divided out into Divisions.

Open means open, not just red dots, comps and big sticks.

If you want to shoot some oddball configuartion that doesnt fit into an existing Division, then shoot Open.

We need less Divisions, not more. Any evidence to prove this theory?

[GeraldMeharry]

I would love to shoot it. But I think it needs production rules 10+1 at start

[eric4069]

I would love to shoot it. But I think it needs production rules 10+1 at start

Me too!

Eric

[jabbermurph]

Why should production optics get more bullets? Makes it sound like open lite to me.

I'm not completely against it but it would have to be the same rules as production with the exception of the slide mounted optic.

With 16+1 that have to fit in the box you pretty much limit the division to 9 mm guns. If you are serious about bringing in ccw optic guys or tactical people you would have to knock the capacity down to whatever a .45 glock, sig, xd, or m&p holds.

I would love to shoot it. But I think it needs production rules 10+1 at start

I would love to shoot it. But I think it needs production rules 10+1 at start

Me too!

Eric

Changed to reflect the will of the people!!!

[Nik Habicht]

I already have production blasters with optics -- and when I want to shoot them, I play in Open for the match......

The current divisions in my experience meet the needs of the org and the competitors pretty well. Y'all are going to have to show me some evidence of benefit -- not conjecture or opinion......

[The Antichrome]

All safe and range worthy guns are already in Open.

Then, if the gun and equip meets certain simple criteria, they can be divided out into Divisions.

Open means open, not just red dots, comps and big sticks.

If you want to shoot some oddball configuartion that doesnt fit into an existing Division, then shoot Open.

We need less Divisions, not more. Any evidence to prove this theory?

Evidence? Theory? Pfft.

My opinion is formed because of the 6 Divisions we have now, only 3 have consistent heavy participation at all levels from local to regional to national.

[The Antichrome]

All safe and range worthy guns are already in Open.

Then, if the gun and equip meets certain simple criteria, they can be divided out into Divisions.

Open means open, not just red dots, comps and big sticks.

If you want to shoot some oddball configuartion that doesnt fit into an existing Division, then shoot Open.

We need less Divisions, not more.

So you would stop shooting Production if this change happened?

If Production, which often has the most participation, became a splintered, bastardized Division, then yes, I'd go back to Limited.

[beltjones]

If these are our choices, I don't think too many people are going to elect to stop shooting production, so I don't think this proves the viability of another division. I would be curious to see how many people would abandon production as it is now to shoot in this new division. I personally don't get it, especially with the capacity increase which makes it even closer to open.

The point of the poll is to prove that it wouldn't hurt Production in it's current form.

It isn't even close to OPEN, other than the optic.

Open guns have almost x2 capacity, major scoring, different allowances for gear and gear placement.

How on earth does the poll prove that such a change won't hurt Production? The way you worded it does no such thing.

[jabbermurph]

It was worded differently, and I realized how futile this attempt was. I think it is an opportunity to grow the sport, and give the folks with less disposable income more choices to play. I believe it would be good, and it is worth, at the least, a trial run.

[beltjones]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. There seems to be a lot of buzz in certain corners of the shooting community about slide-mounted optics on carry/duty guns. If USPSA could effectively market itself to that growing segment, it may well add a lot of competitors and sponsors to matches.

However, like I said in the other thread, there is a right way to do it (with planning and strategic thinking) and a wrong way to do it (with hunches and haphazard implementation). I'd like to see USPSA do it right for once.

[Torogi]

if i have to shoot an optic, id shoot it in open. hell id shoot open with a production gun, minor load, and reload every 10rds with a production rig belt.

a poor mans open is just that, a basic open gun. i dont even know what a poor mans open gun cost now. i would presume a polymer platform with optic? why not shoot that in open? Acquire the necessary skills and one can do great things with a poor mans open gun.

my personal point of view, prod optic doesnt make sense. i can only think of 1 gun that is produced with an optic, M&P? CZ czechmate, Tanfo Eric, sti GM, these are production guns but SA only.

[Stony Lane]

Production optics are the future. It will be a new division. It's just a matter of time.

[tulsashooter45]

I know I'm old school, but I think optic production is getting away from the intended purpose of production.

[wide45]

I will say it. It's a bad idea.

[Steve RA]

I think it would be neat in SS !!!

(maybe because I've got a legal SS that has a Burris FastFire III milled into the slide)

[MGMorden]

Bad idea. People don't want to compete in lonely divisions. Single-stack and Limited 10 are already kinda sparse. Revolver is a ghost town. Doing things that dilute Production into two different groups is a bad idea. It also gets away from the idea of keeping the gear race out of production.

IMHO, if you really want to shoot the optic that bad, then just shoot Open.