Double Alpha pouches illegal for IDPA

[tbarker13]

From yesterday's rule clarification:

"Additionally, all tension screws anywhere on a magazine carrier must require a tool for tension adjustment."

Unless, I'm missing something, that just made my Double Alpha racer and race master mag pouches illegal - since they have that nice little wheel that regulates tension.

I am just lost as to why the rules committee cares how the tension is adjusted on a mag pouch. Consultation with Navy Seals again?

[fastarget]

yup, anything external easily adjustable without a tool is out...

[Sarge]

I have no interest at all in IDPA. BUT, isn't it geared more towards real world carry equipment? Who would carry Race Master pouches on a daily basis?

[tbarker13]

I have no interest at all in IDPA. BUT, isn't it geared more towards real world carry equipment? Who would carry Race Master pouches on a daily basis?

It's funny you would say that.

Maybe the same people who would carry Glock 34s, STI Eagles and full-size 1911s.

It's rare that you see people shooting true carry guns in IDPA. Certainly not the serious competitors.

In fact, it's so rare that IDPA actually has a sub-category of BUG guns (and occasional matches for them) just to get people to use real carry stuff.

Nah. The idea of IDPA using real world carry equipment is just that. An idea. But it's not reality.

[Racinready300ex]

I think even with out that rule they were probably illegal. I think they are two far from you body. I could be wrong, I shoot revolvers. So I'm not up on all the bottom feeder equipment rules.

[tbarker13]

I think even with out that rule they were probably illegal. I think they are two far from you body. I could be wrong, I shoot revolvers. So I'm not up on all the bottom feeder equipment rules.

They are, unless you change out the belt attachment. I mounted a pair on tek loks. Just as close to my body as safarilands.

[Butterpuc]

I do shoot quite a bit of IDPA and I'm getting tired of all the rule changes. It seems like we are now spending to much time clarifying a rule book that was just issued 2 months ago. I swear it feels like the Obama administration is in charge, if they don't get the results they desire... Change the rules, make the rules more restrictive! Aargh!

Ie. These pouches.... So what if the shooter wants to adjust the tension... If the tension is so low the shooters loses a magazine during the course of fire, ding them with a penalty. shooters choice.

As mentioned above, this is supposed to be a sport based on real carry equipment, yeah right . I do shoot my carry guns in local matches, but if I want to be competitive I break out the Glock 34.

[Sarge]

I do shoot quite a bit of IDPA and I'm getting tired of all the rule changes. It seems like we are now spending to much time clarifying a rule book that was just issued 2 months ago. I swear it feels like the Obama administration is in charge, if they don't get the results they desire... Change the rules, make the rules more restrictive! Aargh!

Ie. These pouches.... So what if the shooter wants to adjust the tension... If the tension is so low the shooters loses a magazine during the course of fire, ding them with a penalty. shooters choice.

As mentioned above, this is supposed to be a sport based on real carry equipment, yeah right . I do shoot my carry guns in local matches, but if I want to be competitive I break out the Glock 34.

I know at least two people who carry 34's all the time.

[Steve Koski]

Switch out the knob for something that requires a tool?

[GForceLizard]

The plastic AA Racer pouch is pretty slender. If you take the post mount off and put it on a tec-lok, or whatever, it's mounted right against your body. No reason you couldn't use it for carry any more or less than any other pouch. Even with the stock tension wheel. Bad rule.

[tbarker13]

I do shoot quite a bit of IDPA and I'm getting tired of all the rule changes. It seems like we are now spending to much time clarifying a rule book that was just issued 2 months ago. I swear it feels like the Obama administration is in charge, if they don't get the results they desire... Change the rules, make the rules more restrictive! Aargh!

Ie. These pouches.... So what if the shooter wants to adjust the tension... If the tension is so low the shooters loses a magazine during the course of fire, ding them with a penalty. shooters choice.

As mentioned above, this is supposed to be a sport based on real carry equipment, yeah right . I do shoot my carry guns in local matches, but if I want to be competitive I break out the Glock 34.

I know at least two people who carry 34's all the time.

But I bet you know dozens more who would never think of using a gun that large for every day carry.

I know a guy who carries a colt .45 SAA as a carry gun. But that doesn't mean it's a common carry option.

I don't mean to be argumentative or offensive. I just think this is part of IDPA's problem. It has an identity crisis of sorts.

It wants to be a game that uses common carry equipment. But it's own rules make that impossible.

I can't think of anyone who wears a bladetech black ice holster for conceal carry. Yet that is one of the most common holsters found at an IDPA match. I've been an SO for several years. I've worked some fairly large matches, along with a ton of monthly matches. Outside of BUG matches, I've seen shooters with IWB holsters maybe a dozen times.

The "it's not for everyday carry" argument could be made for 90-95 percent of the mag pouches found at an IDPA match. So I just cannot figure out why this particular brand of pouches has just been ruled illegal. Because the tension can be adjusted by a handy wheel, rather than an allen wrench of screw driver? It's hard to see the competitive advantage someone gains from this.

There aren't any stages where you have to adjust the tension on your mag pouches while the timer is running.

[gondo]

yup, anything external easily adjustable without a tool is out...

This sounds like California and the bullet button...

[motosapiens]

without a doubt, a full-sized 1911 is a common carry gun. Not the MOST common by any means, but not at all unusual.

However, carrying one in a skeleltonized Drop-offset race holster is pretty uncommon for concealed carry, and so are adjustable wheel mag pouches. I love those mag pouches and I have some on my production rig, but i wouldn't carry them for everyday use (of course I wouldn't carry ANY extra magazines for everyday use).

To me, the idpa restrictions on equipment make a fair amount of sense, it's the other pretend-tacticool rules that drove me away.

[gondo]

without a doubt, a full-sized 1911 is a common carry gun. Not the MOST common by any means, but not at all unusual.

However, carrying one in a skeleltonized Drop-offset race holster is pretty uncommon for concealed carry, and so are adjustable wheel mag pouches. I love those mag pouches and I have some on my production rig, but i wouldn't carry them for everyday use (of course I wouldn't carry ANY extra magazines for everyday use).

To me, the idpa restrictions on equipment make a fair amount of sense, it's the other pretend-tacticool rules that drove me away.

Good points

[theblacknight]

Switch out the knob for something that requires a tool?

Was gonna post this

[tbarker13]

Yeah, I'm sure there are things that can be done to make the mag pouches legal.

I'm just frustrated with yet another rule change that doesn't appear to serve any purpose - other than to fulfill someone's whim.

[LincolnOsiris]

I understand there is a Utopian like shooting group that will allow you to shoot almost whatever you like, I believe its called USPSA? or something like that.

[sperman]

I took the thumb wheels off of my DAA pouches and replaced them with button head bolts. I didn't do this because of any rules (I don't shoot IDPA.) I just figure anything adjustable will adjust itself at the worst possible moment. I set them for the tension I want on my mags and forget them. When adjusted this way, I can do jumping jacks and the mags stay in the pouch, but offer little resistance when doing a reload.

[rowdyb]

Capricious rule changes are annoying. But so is whining. There are dumb things in both sports. And in sports there are rules and in each and everyone you will find people who don't like them. And I've competed in sports with far more arbitrary rules....

I find the best course is to just shoot. I'm there to win and that's all the matters. I go to matches to show what I practice away from the matches proves I can shoot better than anyone else there that day. USPSA or IDPA rules.

Edited December 5, 2013 by rowdyb

[tbarker13]

Capricious rule changes are annoying. But so is whining. There are dumb things in both sports. And in sports there are rules and in each and everyone you will find people who don't like them. And I've competed in sports with far more arbitrary rules....

I find the best course is to just shoot. I'm there to win and that's all the matters. I go to matches to show what I practice away from the matches proves I can shoot better than anyone else there that day. USPSA or IDPA rules.

This may be true. But the only way that we, as competitors, shooters, customers, etc., can influence the games we play is by making our voices heard.

There was a chorus of whining in the last year or so that accompanied a proposed change to USPSA's production trigger pull requirements. And USPSA listened.

We've seen a similar response to some of IDPA's rule changes. But they don't seem to care.

Obviously, these are two different organizations, run in very different ways.

That aside, one of the purposes of my original post - along with a little whining - was to pass along information. This will matter to some people. One of our local shooters who attended Nationals specifically asked Robert Ray if these pouches were legal. He was told yes. Now a few months later, they are illegal.

Nobody wants to get DQed at a match because of illegal equipment.

[Agent #1911]

I have no interest at all in IDPA. BUT, isn't it geared more towards real world carry equipment? Who would carry Race Master pouches on a daily basis?

It's funny you would say that.

Maybe the same people who would carry Glock 34s, STI Eagles and full-size 1911s.

It's rare that you see people shooting true carry guns in IDPA. Certainly not the serious competitors.

In fact, it's so rare that IDPA actually has a sub-category of BUG guns (and occasional matches for them) just to get people to use real carry stuff.

Nah. The idea of IDPA using real world carry equipment is just that. An idea. But it's not reality.

I carry my G35 and full size 1911 all the time. "Opinions" on what a carry gun should be is just that, an individual's Opinion. that is why there are rules because everyone has different perception of a carry gun.

[Systemstooge]

without a doubt, a full-sized 1911 is a common carry gun. Not the MOST common by any means, but not at all unusual.

However, carrying one in a skeleltonized Drop-offset race holster is pretty uncommon for concealed carry, and so are adjustable wheel mag pouches. I love those mag pouches and I have some on my production rig, but i wouldn't carry them for everyday use (of course I wouldn't carry ANY extra magazines for everyday use).

To me, the idpa restrictions on equipment make a fair amount of sense, it's the other pretend-tacticool rules that drove me away.

I believe this hits the nail dead center. I am not the most experienced of shooters so take this with all the salt required, I believe they are attempting to keep IDPA from turning into an equipment race.

SS

[tbarker13]

without a doubt, a full-sized 1911 is a common carry gun. Not the MOST common by any means, but not at all unusual.

However, carrying one in a skeleltonized Drop-offset race holster is pretty uncommon for concealed carry, and so are adjustable wheel mag pouches. I love those mag pouches and I have some on my production rig, but i wouldn't carry them for everyday use (of course I wouldn't carry ANY extra magazines for everyday use).

To me, the idpa restrictions on equipment make a fair amount of sense, it's the other pretend-tacticool rules that drove me away.

I believe this hits the nail dead center. I am not the most experienced of shooters so take this with all the salt required, I believe they are attempting to keep IDPA from turning into an equipment race.

SS

This is defintely one of IDPA's stated goals. And I think many IDPA shooters appreciate that. But it's hard to make that argument in this case. The plastic double alpha racers are in the same ballpark (cheaper than some, more expensive than others) as other similarly-built pouches that are legal.

Clearly there's no logical reason for the change. But then, in IDPA's defense, it doesn't need a reason to make any change to its rules. We can either accept them or move on to other games.

I'm sure my local club is no different than any others - we are all trying our best to incorporate the new rules - and now the newer rules that just came out this week.

[Glocktogo]

The solution is so simple that I can't believe someone hasn't posted it yet. Simply wear a shirt emblazoned with the word "Tool". You ARE the Tool! Problem solved!

[tbarker13]

The solution is so simple that I can't believe someone hasn't posted it yet. Simply wear a shirt emblazoned with the word "Tool". You ARE the Tool! Problem solved!

Elegant solution.

And here, I just went out and bought a new set of mag pouches.