Bwana Six-Gun Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 At the recent Production Nationals, I noticed that there was one shooter bumped to Open. When I asked about this, I was told that it happened when a shooter who had a magnet on his belt used it when he went to ULSC. My question is, what is the difference in using the magnet and putting the mag in a front pocket at this point. If the magnet was not used to hold a mag during the course of fire, and then used, where is the competitive advantage? I think this is one of those areas that should be clarified or at least left up to the RO. Granted, what I got was hearsay and may not be accurate, but if it was, was this the right call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 The course of fire is not over until after the RO declares "Range Is Clear". So, in the case you describe, the shooter blew it. I have to ask, though, WTF would someone wear a magnet on a production rig? AT THE NATIONALS????? rule: 8.3.8 “Range Is Clear” – This declaration signifies the end of the Course offire. Once the declaration is made, officials and competitors may moveforward to score, patch, reset targets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Bwana, I'd hate to make that call -- but it's an easy call for me to make..... Magnet is not equivalent to front pocket. Plenty of folks spent years shooting matches at all levels without needing to resort to either magnets or front pockets at Make Ready and at ULSC..... It's not hard...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. Effective January 1, 2013 If you're shooting SS or production and have a magnet on your belt, you're taking a huge risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 The rules are the rules. Why anyone shooting the nats is not aware of the rules of the Division they are shooting...shame on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Foreigner shooter, where it is legal, still had the magnet on his rig...from the gossip I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Foreigner shooter, where it is legal, still had the magnet on his rig...from the gossip I heard. You would think after the mini-skirt issue, the foreign shooters would have read the book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I don't know that the guy was Scottish. He probably didn't get the mini-skirt memo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) It makes no sense that you can't use a magnet at MR and ULSC, but thems the rules....And it kind of conflicts with this ruling If I use a magazine from my front pocket to make ready, or after the unload and show clear command place the discarded magazine in my front pocket, will these actions move me to Open division?Answer:Production and Single Stack equipment locations are NOT intended to complicate loading before the start signal or unloading. (e.g. a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). Edited October 22, 2013 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I don't know that the guy was Scottish. He probably didn't get the mini-skirt memo. I guess IPSC doesn't discuss range fashion as much as we do ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Here in the Netherlands magnets are allowed for Production. Even speed holsters are allowed, so there are some differences between countries' IPSC rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onagoth Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would of guessed it was his IPSC rig, their nationals were the week before I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 On the bright side, he won the open match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynes_world_45 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 and everyone made PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I thought Jake said he went sub-minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Foreigner shooter, where it is legal, still had the magnet on his rig...from the gossip I heard. It makes no sense that you can't use a magnet at MR and ULSC, but thems the rules....And it kind of conflicts with this ruling If I use a magazine from my front pocket to make ready, or after the unload and show clear command place the discarded magazine in my front pocket, will these actions move me to Open division?Answer:Production and Single Stack equipment locations are NOT intended to complicate loading before the start signal or unloading. (e.g. a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). From what I understand, the competitor was not foreign, and was Unclassified in Production. He and a buddy were both Limited Shooters taking advantage of the opportunity to shoot a Nationals. From what I heard, there were a lot of folks shooting Production that normally shoot Open or Limited. My point was, that which Grumpy one cited. I know what the rules say, but aren't we as RO's supposed to have a little common sense and discretion? I don't argue with the rule, but with the interpretation and intent. I am hoping that NROI will take a look at this for the future. My .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I would of guessed it was his IPSC rig, their nationals were the week before I think I worked the match, multiple shooters from previous weekend had their ISPC rigs on, basicly a brain fart / muscle memory moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 and everyone made PF Nope. According to the Chrono staff, two competitors went sub-minor with about 5/6ths of the competitors having passed through chrono. One was shooting factory match ammo, the other would not show up in the results as they shoot for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yep I did went sub minor I was going to load my mags and try to get another open finish at the nationals to match my 3rd place open from single stack nationals..... But still wouldn't show up so no dice I almost ordered universal ammo, but my local gun shop got in 9mm and I bought factory 115gr PMC, (rated at 1150fps from a four inch barrel my ass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 and everyone made PF One was shooting factory match ammo Official match ammo or ammo from some factory advertised as match ammo? If it's the first, I didn't think people using official match ammo were subject to chronoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 and everyone made PF One was shooting factory match ammo Official match ammo or ammo from some factory advertised as match ammo? If it's the first, I didn't think people using official match ammo were subject to chronoing. they still chrono, it just doesn't really matter if they pass or not. that's my understanding anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 and everyone made PF One was shooting factory match ammo Official match ammo or ammo from some factory advertised as match ammo? If it's the first, I didn't think people using official match ammo were subject to chronoing. If you were shooting the official match ammo you still chrono'd, your gun still had to be checked to make sure it was legal, but if you went sub minor it didn't count against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yep I did went sub minor I was going to load my mags and try to get another open finish at the nationals to match my 3rd place open from single stack nationals..... But still wouldn't show up so no dice I almost ordered universal ammo, but my local gun shop got in 9mm and I bought factory 115gr PMC, (rated at 1150fps from a four inch barrel my ass) Did you contact the Manufacture? False advertising! Boo... everybody boycott PMC!!!! They cost you the match Win! We could have had a new Production Champion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Yep I did went sub minor I was going to load my mags and try to get another open finish at the nationals to match my 3rd place open from single stack nationals..... But still wouldn't show up so no dice I almost ordered universal ammo, but my local gun shop got in 9mm and I bought factory 115gr PMC, (rated at 1150fps from a four inch barrel my ass) There's a guy here locally who shoots PMC outta a G26 for IDPA.......he can't even knock down the poppers that are set for 105 PF for revos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yep I did went sub minor I was going to load my mags and try to get another open finish at the nationals to match my 3rd place open from single stack nationals..... But still wouldn't show up so no dice I almost ordered universal ammo, but my local gun shop got in 9mm and I bought factory 115gr PMC, (rated at 1150fps from a four inch barrel my ass) There's a guy here locally who shoots PMC outta a G26 for IDPA.......he can't even knock down the poppers that are set for 105 PF for revos. Yeah out of a sub compact, here are their spec from a 4 inch barrel (and yes I am aware that I should have checked this) Bronze 9A Caliber 9mm Luger Product Line Bronze Line Bullet Type FMJ Weight (grains) 115 Velocity-Muzzle 1150 Velocity-25 Yds 1099 Velocity-50 Yds 1057 Velocity-75 Yds 1020 Velocity-100 Yds 988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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