Krag Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I know that the first production hicap 1911 was the Para but were there any custom built hicaps used before that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I know George Huening built a gun for Barnhardt/Wilson that was a 1911 frame that took hi-cap mags. I'm pretty sure that one off gun was built in response to Springfield importing the P9. That was all long before my time in the sport, so I look forward to hearing from some of the guys who were active back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdavidl Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes, in 1985 or 1986 i saw a custom built at the Kansas City Indoor match. A 1911 frame was split and fillers put in and it used some magazine from Europe. It was in .38 super. I remember the builder's first name was Otto (Otto Comp Gunsmith) and his last name was something like Mytuskya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'd say the first commercial was the Para Ordnance. Then maybe the McCormick (which was the Strayer/Tripp) as Chip sold them for awhile before sales taken in house. I had one of those. Course in the early days you had the Browning HP, which won a lot of the very early IPSC matches. It predated the previously mentioned ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The PF was the hinderance to the HiPower pistols. If SA pistols were allowed in production they would probably be very competitive. The first I remember seeing was the Para pistols. I thought though that originally didn't they come as a kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Think the Paras came complete, I remember I had an early one in ,45 that was complete. You may have also been able to buy the frame alone but I just don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 I know Para originally offered only hicap frames and later complete guns. Does anyone happen to know the years they were introduced??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Company was founded in 1985. I had Pegram build me a 45 in 1986 or 87. Was told by a local MD that I couldn't shoot it at the match because it held "more bullets" than anyone else there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Company was founded in 1985. I had Pegram build me a 45 in 1986 or 87. Was told by a local MD that I couldn't shoot it at the match because it held "more bullets" than anyone else there. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Yes, in 1985 or 1986 i saw a custom built at the Kansas City Indoor match. A 1911 frame was split and fillers put in and it used some magazine from Europe. It was in .38 super. I remember the builder's first name was Otto (Otto Comp Gunsmith) and his last name was something like Mytuskya. Otto Matyska IIRC. Built great guns. Is he still in the business? In addition to Barnhart's custom job that, IIRC, he used to win the first nationals with a doublestack (and maybe the first nationals with a red dot) back in 1990, Jim Boland also built a doublestack in the mid-late 1980s that was featured in American Handgunner. IIRC, he had cut the bottom off a 1911 and fit another grip frame on that allowed it to accept some sort of doublestack mag (HK P7?). On the same gun he had also cut off and rewelded the slide and frame rails so they were reversed like a CZ or Tanfoglio. That man was a genius! The first commercial effort was Para-Ordnance producing frame kits around 1989. Then Chip McCormick selling what later became known ad the S_I kits under his name around 1990-1991. Caspian came around about the same time as Chip's. For a while, there was a company named Entreprise Arms that made frame kits that were similar to Paras but had squared triggerguards shortly after Chip's and Caspian's. Besides Barnhart's one-off, Doug Koenig and TGO started using Tanfoglios in 9x21 to get around the 9x19 major ban. Meanwhile, Michael Plaxico, Tommy Campbell, and Brian Enos were using modified S&W doublestacks (5906?) shooting .356TSW which was like 9x21.5. Edited February 1, 2013 by mpolans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) The PF was the hinderance to the HiPower pistols. If SA pistols were allowed in production they would probably be very competitive. The first I remember seeing was the Para pistols. I thought though that originally didn't they come as a kit? Remember a late '80's Area 3 match in St. Louis that had a 16 round stand and shoot, and Mytisku had the only Hi Cap there, it was quite the talk. A very good local shooter tried a HP with major loads and it beat it to death in just a few rounds. The problem with the Hi Caps was always getting a good magazine, one that would function reliably. The S&W they were using, including Todd Jarret he even had a 9TJ round named after him, were SA special project guns. Edited February 1, 2013 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I was in Houston for 3 1/2 years and moved in late-1982. I'm pretty sure Para was already was selling frame kits by then because me and my buddy used to drool over the ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 When did Caspian show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Caspians trickled out in '91. I got two frames and had one up and running in early '92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Had a Caspian about '92 and loved it, had a Para in '90 and never could get it up and running right. Went to a Nationals in the early ;90's and used a 1911 Open Gun rather than the Para even. Now have an STI and like it as well as the Caspian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 had a glock open built 90-91, with a aim point in 9x21 major, still have barrel and comp and I think the scope mount, aim point is on sons AR. the glock is still in use its my production gun gen1 g17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wasn't USPSA then. IPSC USA. The Para frames were definitely around in the middish 80's. John Dixon had one very early on. Made out of beryllium copper. Jerry's gun was built by George Heuning as I remember, I'll ask him. Jim Boland gun that Jim Zubiena 1st shot used P7 M13 mags. P9's were in 89 I think. Doug won WS in Australia in 90 with scoped P9 in 9x21. Georgino built one for DK and I had 2. Mine were first. George needs to tell you how they all came together. Tommy Campbell was shooting prototype M59 in the 80, maybe earlier. 9 minor. There's more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chizzle Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wasn't USPSA then. IPSC USA. The Para frames were definitely around in the middish 80's. John Dixon had one very early on. Made out of beryllium copper. Jerry's gun was built by George Heuning as I remember, I'll ask him. Jim Boland gun that Jim Zubiena 1st shot used P7 M13 mags. P9's were in 89 I think. Doug won WS in Australia in 90 with scoped P9 in 9x21. Georgino built one for DK and I had 2. Mine were first. George needs to tell you how they all came together. Tommy Campbell was shooting prototype M59 in the 80, maybe earlier. 9 minor. There's more.... "Georgino" is currently building me a single stack. I'll have to talk to him about this next time I see him. He's still got the skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyg00 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Otto Matyska shot the first Hi-Cap at a USPSA Nationals in 1988 or 1989 at PASA. I think it was 1989. It was a prototype gun in .38 Super and he cast the frame himself. The magazines came from Europe and held 19 rounds. The gun had a semi-profile compensator with multiple chambers and ports. The mag funnel was integrated into the frame and was huge. The gun also had a pivot trigger. The frame is at Otto's shop now with a few cracks in it. The gun had easily 100k through it at a 180 or better power factor as major was 175 at the time. I personally shot around 500 rounds out of the gun. The frame has a striking resembalance to a Caspian Hi Cap...... Which is the brand of Hi-Cap Otto built for me in 1993 and I continue to shoot. Otto is still in business and is as busy as ever. I'm proud to call him a friend! Marty A-7424 Edited February 4, 2013 by martyg00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Otto Matyska shot the first Hi-Cap at a USPSA Nationals in 1988 or 1989 at PASA. I think it was 1989. It was a prototype gun in .38 Super and he cast the frame himself. The magazines came from Europe and held 19 rounds. The gun had a semi-profile compensator with multiple chambers and ports. The mag funnel was integrated into the frame and was huge. The gun also had a pivot trigger. The frame is at Otto's shop now with a few cracks in it. The gun had easily 100k through it at a 180 or better power factor as major was 175 at the time. I personally shot around 500 rounds out of the gun. The frame has a striking resembalance to a Caspian Hi Cap...... Which is the brand of Hi-Cap Otto built for me in 1993 and I continue to shoot. Otto is still in business and is as busy as ever. I'm proud to call him a friend! Marty A-7424 John Dixon's Para framed hi cap was a little ahead of this I think. Someone oughta ask him. Those frames were kinda crappy at the time and no one else wanted one, but they did improve them dramatically very soon after. They had a second generation model that was much thinner and better recieved. I'm thinking Dixon's was a .45 around 1985-86. Not real sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS42 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 At the 1988 Nationals I saw and talked to Dixon about the beryllium copper frame. Not too much later I purchased an aluminum alloy frame from Para-Ord, but sold it in 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lppd4 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 From Rob's post: John Dixon's Para framed hi cap was a little ahead of this I think. Someone oughta ask him. Those frames were kinda crappy at the time and no one else wanted one, but they did improve them dramatically very soon after. They had a second generation model that was much thinner and better recieved. I'm thinking Dixon's was a .45 around 1985-86. Not real sure. My post I watched John Dixon shoot the copper berylllium framed Para in the 1986 ( I think) Texas Challenge near Austin Texas. It was in .45acp and he had received the frame about a week before the match. He slapped it together and probably beat everybody there. He dominated our area back then although Chip McCormick would occasionally show up at that match and a guy named Jeff ? would give him a run for his money. Not long after that guys were building .38 supers on the Para frames and having magazines handmade at $125 a copy in 1987-1988 money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 From Rob's post: John Dixon's Para framed hi cap was a little ahead of this I think. Someone oughta ask him. Those frames were kinda crappy at the time and no one else wanted one, but they did improve them dramatically very soon after. They had a second generation model that was much thinner and better recieved. I'm thinking Dixon's was a .45 around 1985-86. Not real sure. My post I watched John Dixon shoot the copper berylllium framed Para in the 1986 ( I think) Texas Challenge near Austin Texas. It was in .45acp and he had received the frame about a week before the match. He slapped it together and probably beat everybody there. He dominated our area back then although Chip McCormick would occasionally show up at that match and a guy named Jeff ? would give him a run for his money. Not long after that guys were building .38 supers on the Para frames and having magazines handmade at $125 a copy in 1987-1988 money. that would be jeff wassum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 From Rob's post: John Dixon's Para framed hi cap was a little ahead of this I think. Someone oughta ask him. Those frames were kinda crappy at the time and no one else wanted one, but they did improve them dramatically very soon after. They had a second generation model that was much thinner and better recieved. I'm thinking Dixon's was a .45 around 1985-86. Not real sure. My post I watched John Dixon shoot the copper berylllium framed Para in the 1986 ( I think) Texas Challenge near Austin Texas. It was in .45acp and he had received the frame about a week before the match. He slapped it together and probably beat everybody there. He dominated our area back then although Chip McCormick would occasionally show up at that match and a guy named Jeff ? would give him a run for his money. Not long after that guys were building .38 supers on the Para frames and having magazines handmade at $125 a copy in 1987-1988 money. that would be jeff wassum. Don't know about Jeff, But do know about John Dixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Wasn't USPSA then. IPSC USA. The Para frames were definitely around in the middish 80's. John Dixon had one very early on. Made out of beryllium copper. Jerry's gun was built by George Heuning as I remember, I'll ask him. Jim Boland gun that Jim Zubiena 1st shot used P7 M13 mags. P9's were in 89 I think. Doug won WS in Australia in 90 with scoped P9 in 9x21. Georgino built one for DK and I had 2. Mine were first. George needs to tell you how they all came together. Tommy Campbell was shooting prototype M59 in the 80, maybe earlier. 9 minor. There's more.... I remember '92 I had just ordered a custom P9 9x21 because that's what you guys had been using. Then you all showed up at the '92 North Americans with the Caspian Hi caps....I was devastated...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now