Can you be competitive with a glock?

[Nik Habicht]

Flex said:

Accuracy...back when I was shooting decent, I'd take people's lunch money (literally) all the time with my Glock. My favorite bet was the "Alpha-bet", where we'd bet dinner on who would shoot the most Alphas in a match. I seldom didn't win. (often shooting against Open guns based on 1911s).

Easy money.

That might have had a little something to do with your skills, not with the gun you were using -- though clearly it needed to be good enough.....

[Tom C]

Here's what it comes down to plane and simply. With a Glock trigger, no matter what you do to it, it has the same trigger pull time after time. That pull can be 5.5#, It can be 2# but it will be what it is first squeeze, last squeeze. The Double action single action guns have a "heavy" pull for the first shot then the following shots are single action and the pull weight is less. David Sevigny used to shoot Glocks and did well. Robert Vogel (from Ohio) won the IPSC worlds in Greece using a Glock 17 and still competes with Glocks. Once you work out the "bugs" of any firearm, It's the shooter and only the shooter that matters. That is the bottom line no if's and's or but's about it.

The pull weight of the Double/single action semi-autos are why they dominate standard in IPSC. They have a 2.2 kg rule for the first pull. Few want to fight a 2.2kg pull shot for shot.

You're confusing Standard with Production.

Please re-read the original post. And have a nice day

[beltjones]

Here's what it comes down to plane and simply. With a Glock trigger, no matter what you do to it, it has the same trigger pull time after time. That pull can be 5.5#, It can be 2# but it will be what it is first squeeze, last squeeze. The Double action single action guns have a "heavy" pull for the first shot then the following shots are single action and the pull weight is less. David Sevigny used to shoot Glocks and did well. Robert Vogel (from Ohio) won the IPSC worlds in Greece using a Glock 17 and still competes with Glocks. Once you work out the "bugs" of any firearm, It's the shooter and only the shooter that matters. That is the bottom line no if's and's or but's about it.

The pull weight of the Double/single action semi-autos are why they dominate standard in IPSC. They have a 2.2 kg rule for the first pull. Few want to fight a 2.2kg pull shot for shot.

You're confusing Standard with Production.

Please re-read the original post. And have a nice day

I did read the first post, which referenced Standard division. Standard is similar to Limited, where there is no minimum trigger pull requirement. Production is the division in IPSC with the minimum trigger pull weight for the first shot. Vogel won the Production title in Greece. You wrote several reasons why CZs tend to be more popular than Glocks in Production, not standard.

Again, you are confusing Standard with Production. And have a nice day.

[Tom C]

Yep, I did it again...Shot off my .45 acp mouth without a leg to stand on. I appologize to all in the forum.

[amac]

I run a 2011 and get beat by guy's running Glocks all the time. It's the person wielding the gun, not the gun that makes you competitive.

[Sleepswithdogs]

First let me say, I have owned both Ford and Chevy and liked both. Being a new guy around here I'm wondering, at 25 feet, how much more accurate is an S_I than a Glock? Are we talking an 1/8 of an inch here or what?

Watching Vogel shoot the Glock it is apparent he takes a huge grip on that thing. It's no wonder he has so little recoil to deal with, he doesn't let the gun rise, and what I have seen of his shooting, it doesn't seem he has too much of a handy cap dealing with the capacity of the Glock. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is what I have seen of it.

As for trigger, Glocks are nothing to write home about, but it doesn't seem to handicap some, but obviously others find it not so good. I recently put in a 3.5 and light springs for a friend along with a better trigger bar and the result was excellent. For a Glock that is.

Tar

Edited February 19, 2013 by Sleepswithdogs

[MikeRush]

This has been a very interesting thread. For a while I would get popcorn each day and check to see the updates.

I think a few of the Standard specific questions haven't been answered- ie mag capacity for a Standard box legal Glock, and the use of 35s at the World Shoot.

The answer to the title question of "Can you" is clear, absolutely you can. Looking at Vogel, or KC, or other Glock legends and you will see plenty of evidence that Glock shooters can take home trophies too.

In my very limited experience though it is easier to shoot a 19/2011 style gun than a Glock. Given that most of us are dealing with a finite amount of attention or awareness at any given point in time it is likely easier to shoot a minimal travel, short reset, light trigger well. The issue of weight is also something to consider, even as Limited guns are getting lighter and lighter my G24 I use for Limited is something like 26 ounces, which makes tracking the sights more sensitive to grip pressure than with a heavier gun.

For our Glock heroes, those who have mastered the trigger and recoil control there is not really much of a difference, back to the Ford vs Chevy idea. I have done well at local steel matches shooting Glocks (even my nightstand G17) but for me it usually takes a couple of stages before I become fully aware of the reset and my grip pressure. I still haven't figured out how to get both of those things right on my first stage.

I'm not sure how my theory that it takes more effort to shoot a Glock well translates to the super squad. Most of them choose 2011 pattern guns and I don't think its just to look cool. I just know that for me, right now, if I am on I can burn down a stage (as well as a C class shooter can do haha) but I am considerably more consistent with the Single Stack. In December I shot a local steel match and came in 2nd out of 22 in limited against guys using mostly 2011s, behind the leader by 2 1/2% after a time consuming jam (I found out my 24 won't always cycle after hitting the reload with 15 in the mag, need to load down by 1), and then zeroed my next classifier.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Well written Megarush. My last 1911 was a Gold Cup, and it was full of problems from the getgo. The trigger sucked, and had major headache trying to stop the constant malfunctions. I did finally get it sorted out, including the trigger which ended up being superb. I picked up a G27 along the way for the house and found I could shoot it just about as well as my Colt, so this time when I decided to do some comp shooting I chose a bigger Glock to try. I have my first match with it coming up, I'll know more about how me and the Glock get along after that.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Ok, ran the G34 in a match and LOVED it. Super reliable, very controllable, no problems with it being finicky about ammo. Will have replaced the sights among other personalizing changes and will alter the front sight a bit more, but I am very happy with it.

Tar

[Penguin]

A glock will take you far in this sport....

[Cliveb]

I'm a Glock convert (albeit from a SIG P226) and run a G35 in standard division.

To be honest, I very rarely get beaten by anyone with an STI. The Glock fits my hand like a glove and is a real tack driver - having said that, a 1911-style frame may suit you better. You'll only know when you try one out.

I have a feeling that the most important aspect of this all is "believing" in your gun - the mental game is a major aspect of this sport.

Just my (rather basic) 2 cents....

[Waterfowl-widowmaker]

Whatever you get comfortable with. I have a STI Edge and could shoot circles around my glock. Then I started shooting a lot of the glock matches and practicing a lot with it. Now I can shoot them about equal.

[Tyro Shooter]

Team GLOCK Competitors Win Overall Match and Hi-Lady Standard Division at 2013 IPSC Australasia Championships

SMYRNA, GA —March 05, 2013 —

Eusebio and Nonaka post top scores in New Zealand

Today GLOCK, Inc. announced that Team GLOCK members Tori Nonaka and KC Eusebio competed in the 2013 Australasia International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) Handgun Competition in Rotorua, New Zealand, Feb. 26 - Mar. 1, 2013. Eusebio earned Overall Match Winner and Nonaka won the Hi-Lady Standard Division. Both competitors were awarded the IPSC Presidents Medal for their international participation and respective accomplishments.

“Australasia was one of the best international matches I've ever shot,” enthused Eusebio. “The match staff was very supportive, and the competition was extremely organized. I found the courses of fire quite challenging and unique. I was extremely happy to attend and win my first Australasian championship.”

The Level IV regional qualifier for the 2014 World Championship drew more than 750 international competitors and lasted four days as competitors took on the challenge of 24 different stages. Eusebio shot a GLOCK 34 9x19 Open pistol prepared by ZEV Technology, and Nonaka shot a GLOCK 35 .40 pistol customized by SJC Guns.

[Tyro Shooter]

No

and for the next 76.27 seconds I will say no Glocks can not competitive.

what???

again????

March 28, 2013 —

Competition in Titusville, FL offered head-to-head challenge

Today GLOCK, Inc. announced that Team GLOCK member KC Eusebio set a new Main Match Overall Record with his win at the 2013 U.S. National Steel Championship on March 23, 2013 in Titusville, Fla. Eusebio shot the match in 76.27 seconds, beating his next closest competitor, Max Michel, by almost three seconds - and bettering the previous record of 80.09 Eusebio set back in 2007.

Using his Open Class GLOCK 17 pistol prepared by ZEV Technology to establish the overall best time and win outright four of the eight stages, Eusebio set two additional stage records at the match:

• 5 to Go (9.05 versus 9.78 set by Eusebio in 2008)
  
• Pendulum (9.21 versus 9.85 set by Eusebio in 2008)
  

my bad

[Henry625]

To answer this question, all you have to do is watch Bob Vogel and Dave Sevigney (when he was with Glock). They shot Glocks and took striker fired pistols to a new leveI.

I shot the Pro-Am a couple years ago with my Glock 34, I felt confident with it. I was able to watch Bob Vogel and Dave Sevigney shoot their Glock first hand and it was impressive to say the least. What impressed me the most, was watching Bob Vogel shoot his Glock 34 in Limited (iron sights) and then shoot the same pistol in Open (dots and comps) against 2011's all tricked out and I think that year he came in 3rd over all ? That says volumes about the capabilities of the pistol and the man behind it.

I shoot my G34 in USPSA production division and a tricked out G17 in open division. I am a "B" class shooter, it is not the type of gun that is holding me back from advancing.

Shoot your Glock with confidence.

[eric nielsen]

Glocks have both a steep grip angle and a nice flat surface on top of each side of the grip. Dave and Bob both mention that they like those features, I do too, they can help some shooters for several reasons.

But, if you put the big flat grip-tops and the steeper angle (with MS housings or grip inserts) onto other gun platforms (with a shorter, straighter trigger press) you may have a gun that's even more competitive. $0.02.

[ronin16]

This thread has really got me thinking about grabbing one!!! Thanks guys!

[Calishooter]

After reading this thread, I'm so glad that I bought glock 34 for production and maybe limited.

[Niceash]

Well, I can say that my Glock 35 is pretty darn accurate, When I practice perfect shooting, I hit everything I aim at, the gun is not my limitation. Experience and practice is my limitation.

[whatsupglock]

Some guy named Robert Vogel seems to do okay with a Glock. But what would a world champion know...

[whatsupglock]

However, it's also pretty clear that Glocks are at a disadvantage relative to other guns under a pretty important range of criteria.

I don't think so.

Are reloads effectively slower?

Do they transition between targets worse?

Slow splits?

Draw speed?

Reliability?

Accuracy?

My perspective is that they are a lighter gun with a trigger that isn't quite as nice. Other than that...which I put on the shooter...they perform.

I'm not saying they don't perform, and I agree that the shooter is the major variable. I've said that about a dozen times here (hyperbole).

To address your questions, here's my perspective:

Are reloads effectively slower? Shooter.

Do they transition between targets worse? Shooter.

Slow splits? Shooter.

Draw speed? Shooter.

Reliability? Depends on the individual gun - you can certainly have a Glock that doesn't run and an S_I that doesn't fail.

Accuracy? Ah. Here it is. S_Is tend to be more accurate (but you pay for it), and they have better triggers.

You don't get the reliability point. You just don't. Sure, people can,...and do...mess up their Glocks. But, if you truly want to make the argument you made...then I could say the same thing about triggers. It would be BS, but I could say...Depends on the individual gun - you can certainly have a Glock that has a great trigger and an S_I that has a bad trigger.

Accuracy...back when I was shooting decent, I'd take people's lunch money (literally) all the time with my Glock. My favorite bet was the "Alpha-bet", where we'd bet dinner on who would shoot the most Alphas in a match. I seldom didn't win. (often shooting against Open guns based on 1911s).

Easy money.

Uhh, I think I do get it.

The reliability potential for both is 100%. You can't have a gun that's more reliable than that. Either is capable of that, so it's really an issue of individual gun performance.

However, when we're talking accuracy and trigger, you have to admit that - mechanically - the S_I has more potential. It has more accuracy potential, and it has potential for a better trigger. Certainly the trigger is a matter of personal preference, but for most people a tuned 1911 trigger will be preferable to a tuned Glock trigger. As for accuracy, I would put the most accurate 1911/S_I up against the most accurate Glock any day. In a rest that is. If I put the Glock in the hands of a good GM and the S_I in the hands of a B class shooter of course I would expect the GM to shoot more alphas. That's a matter of shooter skill, not mechanical accuracy.

Once again, in case anyone missed it, the most important variable is the shooter (sort of like in the alpha bet above). That much is obvious. But among the best shooters, not many tend to choose a Glock over an S_I. Take that for what it's worth.

And since Sevigny left team Glock, in how many matches in Standard or Limited did he shoot a Glock? Obviously he had a tremendous amount of experience shooting Glocks, right? Yet he jumped to a custom STI almost immediately. It's just a data point, but it's worth about as much as the data point on Vogel posted above.

I've spoken to Dave personally since leaving Glock. It was not on good terms. I don't think you will see Dave Sevigney shoot a Glock ever again in a match where other people will see him. He will not give them any free advertising or publicity. If he stayed with Glock, he would continue to be a force shooting the plastic fantastic.

[bikerburgess]

For USPSA/IPSC and Steel Chalenge, GLOCKS can be very competitive, they are plenty accurate and reliable for what we are normally shooting. The biggest challenge to shooting a GLOCK well is trigger control, if you have good trigger control they won't hold you back if you have pour trigger control the light short trigger of a 19/2011 can help mask it, so you will find that lower skilled shooters will be held back more by the GLOCK than the higher level shooters. Spend a year shooting a revolver and you will not mind the trigger on just about any auto.

Mike

[Lost River]

Personally I just shoot my Glocks better when transitioning/speed shooting than when running high cap 1911 type platforms. I find I can shoot tighter groups, slow fire with a 1911, but since we are not shooting a bullseye match, I find the Glock a better tool (for me).

Personal choices. There may not be a right or wrong. I really enjoy the Glocks when running and gunning.

[zipper046]

I believe you can be competitive with anything you PRACTICE ALOT with. Practice does make perfect and allows you to learn the gun and it's quirks. 9 years ago I started in USPSA with a Kimber Classic Gold Match and did OK. I transitioned to Glock about a year later and qualified as a "C" shooter in Limited first time out in a match. I transitioned because it was a cheaper entry to the sport. I learned the trigger and balance of the gun and slowly became more competitive (not top level mind you, but competitive enough). I stuck with Glock because the PD I got hired on with issues a Glock and I wanted to be consistent with what I carry.

HOWEVER, over the the last 9 years I kept being persuaded to go to other platforms because of the perceived increase in accuracy, etc. I shot Para P16-40's that had custom work done, Single Stack Springers in .40, a Browning Hi-Power in .40. Each time I came back to my Glocks and did as well, if not better. I attribute this to all the trigger time I had on the Glocks.

My other reason was reliability. I shoot at a local club where guys routinely come in with guns in the $2000 - $3000 range and I always see some kind of malfunction on these guns....ammo, mag's, Dot sights, etc. Always seems they are tweaking and fixing. My Glock (with the exception of one time where I tweaked the trigger bar too much) really has had no issues. Maybe an occasional light strike on my reloads, but not the guns fault only faulty ammo.

Can you be competitive....absolutely! Will you have more fun with less headaches from issues...absolutely!

[ericjhuber]

Ok, ran the G34 in a match and LOVED it. Super reliable, very controllable, no problems with it being finicky about ammo. Will have replaced the sights among other personalizing changes and will alter the front sight a bit more, but I am very happy with it.

Tar

I think we're on the same page. I'm using Glock 34 Gen 4 for USPSA Production and I'm very pleased with it right out of the box. I'm resistant to messing with Glocks because I'm not willing to risk any reliability, but I have added some DP grip tape that I like very much. After the Steel Challenge World Shoot, I'm going to send it off to Dawson Precision to get a set of DP fiber optic sights and have them do their zeroing in process.