whatsupglock

At Christmas ish time.

I have the PSA 16" barrel on my PCC. I can load 147 gr Xtremes to 1.160" and I can load 124 gr Xtremes to 1.135" (both round nose profile). Anything longer than that and the shoulder of the bullet gets into the rifling.

I've been fighting with this question too. I ran some chrono data and listed it in another forum on here, but Sunday I went out for round two and used only xtreme bullets. Here's my data (these are multiple shot averages): PSA AR9, Colt Platform with PSA Barrel, Bolt and Buffer. FYI I've decided to use 2.5 gr of Titegroup at 1.160 oal with CCI primers and a 0.376" crimp. This load shoots well and that oal has proven to be incredibly reliable regarding feeding into the chamber. All loads are CCI primers at 1.160" oal and a 0.376" crimp and Titegroup. 54 degrees and overcast. 147 gr Xtreme, 2.5 gr = 877 fps group 1 and 882 fps group 2. 128,919 pf/129,654 pf. 147 gr Xtreme, 2.6 gr = 898 fps group 1 and 906 fps group 2. 132,006 pf/133,182 pf. 147 gr Xtreme, 2.8 gr = 982 fps. 144,354 pf. 147 gr Xtreme, 2.9 gr = 1000 fps. 147,000 pf. 147 gr Xtreme, 3.1 gr = 1014 fps. 149,058 pf. 124 gr Xtreme, 2.8 gr = 998 fps. 123,752 pf. (this load is 1.135" oal, 1.135" on the Xtreme is the maximum length I can load before the bullet gets slammed into the rifling.)

I've had some very different results with my load data verified by chrono. I must have a really tight barrel. My numbers are way different that what other people have been getting. I had a friend bring his 16" ar9 PCC out and I shot my 16" ar9 side by side with the same loads and the results were frankly astonishing. My PCC shoots significantly hire power factor for the exact same loads vs his rifle. Here is my data. 147 grain Xtremes with Titegroup with cci primers and 1.125" oal. 3.1 gr = 1035 fps for 152,145 pf. 2.9 gr = 1023 fps for 150,381 pf. 2.8 gr = 995 for 146,265 pf. (made 130,000 ish power factor out of my buddy's PCC). I was sure 2.8 would be close to 130,000 is pf, but I'm way over. I'm guessing I'll have to go to 2.5 to get there, but I'm not comfortable going that low on a powder charge with Titegroup. It's way below published load data. 124 grain Xtreme, Titegroup, CCI Primers, 1.125" oal. 3.1 gr = 1113 fps for 138,012 pf. I'm thinking 2.8-2.9 grains will get me around 130,000 pf with a 124. I'm much more comfortable with that than 2.5 grains on a 147. 124 gr Montana Gold JHP, Titegroup, CCI primers, 1.080" oal 3.1 gr = 1082 fps for 134,168 pf. 147 gr Montana Gold flat point, Titegroup, CCI primers, 1.125" oal. 2.9 gr = 924 for 135,828 pf. I load for pistol and PCC and want to stick with Titegroup so I don't have to change my press. I'm loading 3.2 gr on a 147 Xtreme for my P320 and that works great, but I'm struggling with numbers on this PCC. I'm going to have to go with some really light loads to get near 130,000 pf. I shot some WWB for grins and those suckers were pushing 1,600 fps out of my barrel. The thing is a thumper for sure.

@ Bruce Gray. You must have some kind of internet mojo beacon jedi knight magic. Every single post I see about the P320, you have some kind of teaser comment. I personally am foaming at the mouth in anticipation of the "kit" you guys are working so hard on. I saw your post about a January deadline. Man, I can't wait! The first gun I ever purchased was a Sig P226 in 9mm. I carried a P226 in 40 for a duty weapon when I was a cop. I have been waiting a very long time for Sig to make this P320. I walked in to a shop that had the C and FS in stock, handled them both, and purchased both on the spot! Sig has something VERY special here. This gun reminds me of how I felt when I held the Sig P228 for the very first time. As far as reviews go on the P320, It's awesome. That's all that needs to be said. I have done trigger work on mine and from the very tip of the trigger it breaks right at 4 lbs with a Lyman trigger pull gauge. From the middle of the trigger it is of course heavier, but it feels a lot lighter due to the mechanics and ergonomics of the grip/trigger combo. My guns broke at 7 lbs 14 oz brand new. They didn't feel nearly that heavy and they both shot exceptionally well. For a duty weapon, nothing really needs changed, but for competition a lighter trigger is definitely welcomed. It is most certainly not a deal breaker shooting the gun stock. It feels 10 times better than any stock Glock or M&P trigger, of which I own and shoot both by the way. The sight radius is identical to my 1911's. Ergos are better. High bore axis is tainted Kool-Aid talk. This gun is a very soft, flat shooting gun. The stock recoil springs eat up my bunny fart 147 loads without ANY issues. My M&P and Glocks won't shoot my reloads without spring mods. I have about 600 rounds through mine and they have been 100% perfection. I will be competing this weekend with my FS for the first time. I was delayed in trying to figure out gear issues. I was able to modify my Comp-Tac Glock mag pouches to get them to work with my P320 mags, and I'm good to go now. REALLY looking forward to this.

I handled the P320 right after shot show and was impressed, but wasn't ready to test the waters just yet. I recently had the opportunity to handle the P320 full size and carry models and was so flipping impressed for the second time that I bought them both on the spot! I put 200 rounds through each gun. They shot incredibly flat, so I don't want to hear any kool aid drinkers talking about the high bore axis of a Sig. The recoil spring weight in both guns is superb and function every piece of crap ammo I could choke into the breach. Even my bunny fart rejects. The guns had zero failures, shot incredibly accurate and were absolutely amazing. I had several people approach me wandering what I was having so much fun shooting and of course everyone wanted to shoot it. I was more than happy to accommodate their requests and every single person that shot it was pretty pissed off because they liked the things so much they said they were going to have to go buy one. Men and women both shot the gun and the reaction by both sexes was the same. These things are shooters! The trigger is 7 lbs. Period. You can measurer all over the trigger and get pulls off of a lyman digital trigger pull gauge as low as 5 lbs at the very, very, very (get the idea) button of the trigger! The trigger, for me, smokes anything else out there striker fired. The frame size in medium is PERFECT and the trigger reach is right on the money. I was so impressed with the P320, I have sold EVERY Glock I own, except my 19 which I am keeping for personal sentimental reasons and my M&P. It's seriously that good. I am going to say that the P320, to me and in my opinion is better than the 1911 for what I need. Yes. I am that impressed. I have shot just about everything under the sun. Sig, M&P, the XD's, Glock, STI, CZ, blah, blah etc....blah, and this thing is something special. The trigger for carry and home defense is perfect. For competition it may be a little heavy. I have taken the gun apart, studied every spring, contact surface, pin, nook and cranny and have some pretty good ideas on how to get this thing in the 3 lbs range for a gaming gun. The P320 carry I'm not going to touch, but the full size is going to have a slick trigger when I'm done. I am predicting that if people can get over this Sig high bore axis crap and oh sig has QC issues and every other anti-Sig complaint you hear on the net, this gun has HUGE potential to overtake Glock and SW in the shooting sports. It will take some good sponsorship and very visible marketing to make that happen, but this gun speaks for itself. This is the gun SW wanted to build and the gun Glock should have built. Yes the Glock wins for simplicity of design, but that in and of itself is it's own achiles heal. The frame is incredibly solid and easy to stipple the crap out of. For $40 bucks you can have a tear your skin off grip monger and for another $40 bucks you can have a stock frame for carry or home defense. Pretty awesome ability. The sights work very, very well. I have heard that the p226 uses the same dovetail as the SA XD on the front sight, therefore you may be able to use any fiber optic front sight designed for the XD on the P320???? Just a ponder. Natural point of aim on the thing is unbelievable! The dang thing just lines up. Conversation over. Next. I just can't say enough good about this gun. The only "bad" thing I have to say about this gun is that trigger work may be very difficult. It's not like a Glock where if you have a dremel you can make something happen. This gun is designed with a very interesting combination of mechanical levers, geometry and spring tensions. Trigger/action jobs will take way more than just visiting a website on the internet and dropping parts in the gun. On the flip side of that coin, I think way too much emphasis is put in to having a super light angel hair pixie dust trigger. Bob Vogel and Dave Sevigny are my case in point. Anyhow...the gun is awesome. I couldn't be happier, and the Damn thing sells for right around $600 + or - $50. No brainer. I am really happy for Sig. They just hit a grand slam home run in game 7 of the world series in the bottom of the 9th from 3 runs down for the win. In the past I was very quick to recommend a Glock to every single person that asked me what gun they should buy. It's simple to use. No mechanical safety to screw up under stress. Accurate. Reliable. Easy to maintain. Cheap. Those days are looooooong gone. Sig P320. One. Awesome. Pistol. Hey Sig, if you're listening, you've got one hell of a pistol here. Don't screw this thing up by offering it in diamond plate rainbow bright periwinkle platinum plating with engraved girly swirls. Leave it alone. Market the crap out of this. Make 20 round mags. Get some shooters. Throw this thing in 3 gun, USPSA, IDPA and steal challenge etc... Donate these things to prize tables. Get some Police and Military contracts so the mall ninjas will buy these things because they like to make internet videos. Work with Bruce Gray to develop a competition spring kit so the trigger junkies will have an Apex like kit they can spend $100 on because it will make their gun better. That is a very small recipe for watching this gun potentially become one of your greatest successes. I'm sure there will be some flaming here, especially from people who have never shot one or inspected one, but this is what I know. These guns are awesome enough to push me to sell every gun in my safe except my 1911's, and I don't like selling guns. After shooting these things though, I see no reason to own anything else. Period.

4.5 lbs wolff spring here with stock striker as well. 3-3.25lbs trigger pull and I use CCI primers with no light strikes.

I don't think so. Are reloads effectively slower? Do they transition between targets worse? Slow splits? Draw speed? Reliability? Accuracy? My perspective is that they are a lighter gun with a trigger that isn't quite as nice. Other than that...which I put on the shooter...they perform. I'm not saying they don't perform, and I agree that the shooter is the major variable. I've said that about a dozen times here (hyperbole). To address your questions, here's my perspective: Are reloads effectively slower? Shooter. Do they transition between targets worse? Shooter. Slow splits? Shooter. Draw speed? Shooter. Reliability? Depends on the individual gun - you can certainly have a Glock that doesn't run and an S_I that doesn't fail. Accuracy? Ah. Here it is. S_Is tend to be more accurate (but you pay for it), and they have better triggers. You don't get the reliability point. You just don't. Sure, people can,...and do...mess up their Glocks. But, if you truly want to make the argument you made...then I could say the same thing about triggers. It would be BS, but I could say...Depends on the individual gun - you can certainly have a Glock that has a great trigger and an S_I that has a bad trigger. Accuracy...back when I was shooting decent, I'd take people's lunch money (literally) all the time with my Glock. My favorite bet was the "Alpha-bet", where we'd bet dinner on who would shoot the most Alphas in a match. I seldom didn't win. (often shooting against Open guns based on 1911s). Easy money. Uhh, I think I do get it. The reliability potential for both is 100%. You can't have a gun that's more reliable than that. Either is capable of that, so it's really an issue of individual gun performance. However, when we're talking accuracy and trigger, you have to admit that - mechanically - the S_I has more potential. It has more accuracy potential, and it has potential for a better trigger. Certainly the trigger is a matter of personal preference, but for most people a tuned 1911 trigger will be preferable to a tuned Glock trigger. As for accuracy, I would put the most accurate 1911/S_I up against the most accurate Glock any day. In a rest that is. If I put the Glock in the hands of a good GM and the S_I in the hands of a B class shooter of course I would expect the GM to shoot more alphas. That's a matter of shooter skill, not mechanical accuracy. Once again, in case anyone missed it, the most important variable is the shooter (sort of like in the alpha bet above). That much is obvious. But among the best shooters, not many tend to choose a Glock over an S_I. Take that for what it's worth. And since Sevigny left team Glock, in how many matches in Standard or Limited did he shoot a Glock? Obviously he had a tremendous amount of experience shooting Glocks, right? Yet he jumped to a custom STI almost immediately. It's just a data point, but it's worth about as much as the data point on Vogel posted above. I've spoken to Dave personally since leaving Glock. It was not on good terms. I don't think you will see Dave Sevigney shoot a Glock ever again in a match where other people will see him. He will not give them any free advertising or publicity. If he stayed with Glock, he would continue to be a force shooting the plastic fantastic.

Some guy named Robert Vogel seems to do okay with a Glock. But what would a world champion know...

I use the Glock "-" connector because it works. I've tried almost every connector out there, and the Glock is just the best. It has the best combination of length of pull, reset and feel of all the others out there.

I run stock. I like the lightning strike of all the after market strikers the best. I have had 2 Jager strikers. Shot them both in only one match and they broke. I won't be getting a third. Maybe it was just bad luck. I know a lot of people have them, use them and love them. I didn't feel the love. The first time the striker broke, it was replaced, but I had to wait a while to get one. I was very excited to run one in the gun again and unfortunately it broke as well. I am sure Jager would replace it, but I am not interested in messing with it any more.

Stock striker totally pollished. Wolffe 4.5 or 5 lb striker spring. Wolff guide rod with reducing ring and 12lb recoil spring. The gun is most reliable in its stock form.

Mine is also pollished, but stock. I have come full circle. I've tried and broken almost everything out there. I can get a Glock Trigger down to about 2 lbs with aftermarket stuff, but my 3 year old 34 has settled in at about 3 lbs 4 oz and it shoots okay enough to win, and it is reliable. No light strikes.

So like it says. I've broken 7 magazine release springs in the last 14 months in my Gen 4 Glock 17 and my Gen 3 34. two in the 17 and 5 in the 34. I'm really getting tired of them breaking. So I'm thinking about trying to make my own out of music wire. Has anyone else done this? Does it work? Is it reliable? I don't know if the stock spring is too rigid or what, but they are cracking and snaping in half. I have been cursed with the Gremlins. In the last 2 weeks I've broken 2 strikers, a connector and 2 mag release springs. So...if anyone needs anything broken...loan me your gun.

I LOVE mine! Came from the factory with a 4 lb trigger. Shoots anything I feed through it. It's pricey, but as anything else in life, you get what you pay for. My EMP 9mm is one of my favorite guns and I carry it every day. Zero regrets. I him-hawed around for a year before buying one, and one day said the heck with it. GREAT gun. A few buddies of mine have since switched to the EMP 9 as well after shooting and handling mine. Buy it!

I just installed a techwell TGO on my STI Trojan and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it! This is THE magwell I have been looking for! I've used the Dawson, Wilson, S&A and the Techwell is great!

I've been seeing more and more Gen 4's locally. I broke down and bought one on the 4th of July. I've got the trusty Sevigny sights on it and I've got a Jager guide rod on the way for my reloads. I'm going to shoot the gun in a uspsa match tomorrow with the stock rod. I can't wait! So far, I'm really impressed with the gun. The new mag release is nice, the grip is amazing and the size of the Glock 17 seems like a much better fit for me vs. my 34. That thing comes out of the holster so stinkin' fast! I did my typical trigger work on the gun. Usually I can get the trigger on Gen 3's in the 2-2.5 lbs range. this thing is right around 3 lbs. I've heard the Gen 4 triggers are just slightly heavier than the Gen 3's and from what I can tell, that seems to be the case. The trigger is still very nice though. It's really not that big of a deal. The other thing I discovered as well is that a Gen3 grip plug easily fits in the Gen4 with just a little trimming with a dremel. Just an FYI.

I just did a trigger job in my Gen 4 Glock 17 that I bought on the 4th of July. Turned out pretty good. It's about .25 to .5 lbs heavier than what I can get on a gen three, but it's right around 2 lbs 11 ounces to 3 lbs and feels really good. Plus the gun hasn't been fired yet. I used the stock trigger bar, changed springs and used the Glock "-" connector. feels great. I have had a chance to play with all of the Glocktriggers, and Vanek stuff. They are really good. I like mine better, but if you don't want to do the work yourself, just buy one of theirs. I'm going to run the gun tonight in an IDPA match and this weekend in a USPSA match. I think I'm really going to like this Gen 4 a whole bunch more than my Gen 3's. The grip is soooooooo much more comfortable for me.

I have both and prefer the Dawson/Metalform mags. 6 Tripps. 9 Dawson/metalforms. They are both good but I have had some issues with the Tripps in my Trojan.

I recently read it was related to health concerns/problems. I am not sure how reliable that information was. As I understand it, there was some issue, and he had planned on shooting through it, but has since decided to discontinue shooting.

A bunch of material needed to be removed fromt he underside of the 9mm EJECTOR. The 10 round magazines sit higher in the gun and the magazine or the bullet in the magazine absolutely can not touch the ejector. Bad things will happen if it does. A good fix is to switch to a 40 caliber EJECTOR. The 40 EJECTOR has much more material to it, so when you go filing away, there is much more remaining when completed. The other thing I did was dropped to a 9lbs recoil spring. Yes, I am still running the 147 grain Berry's. I did however have to change my OAL to 1.145. I was running 1.160 and would prefer to stay there, but I switched magazines, which brings me to the biggest part of the equation. I have come to much prefer the metalform 10 reound magazines with the rear spacer and front feed lip helper ramp when running 10 + 1 rounds in MY gun. I had to shorten my bullet length to 1.145 to ensure that the bullets would clear the dimple in the magazine for the feed lip. 1.160 would feed in to the magazine with no problems, but they bullet tip would catch the front lip causing them to get stuck in the magazine and not feed properly. The other really important step is making sure the magazine itself won't jam the gun. You must check slide clearance at the rear of the magazine where the breach face pushes the next round up into the barrell. Metalform magazines need a little filing in this area. If you put the magazine in the gun, with the slide open, push up on the magazine from the bottom of the gun's grip. Watch how high the magazine sits inside the breach area. I can guaruntee you that the rear of the magazine is going to rise up above the frame. Hold the magazine there, and walk the slide forward on the gun. Whamooo! Jam. This is where you say, but I'm not pushing up on the magazine when I reload. Now do this. Put some dummy's in the magazine. Open the slide on the gun and insert the magazine. Now, when you drop the slide raise the gun up like you would be in a dynamic run and gun as if you were reloading on the move and bringing the gun up for the shot. The inertia of the magazine, on my gun, continually raised the magazine up enough in the frame to jam the gun on a more than regular basis. It took me FOREVER to figure out that this is what was happening. Now that every magazine I have has been filed in the rear, the gun runs amazingly well! The other problem that can happen if the mags are not clearing the breach face, is if you slam a magazine into the gun when you're all jacked up running a stage. What happens is the bullets shift upwards just slightly and press out on the lips of the magazine. If they press out enough, it can spread the lips to the point where the magazine fits very tightly in the gun near the breach area. If this happens, and the mags haven't been shortened in the rear, when you drop the slide, the magazine has enough tension that it holds in place and will jam the gun. If the area is removed from the rear of the magazines, like I've explained, it seems as though the slide has enough iniertia to get the job done when closing, and the slide can push the magazine down out of the way as it slides over the lips of the magazine. If the area to the rear of the magazine is not removed, it's like the slide is hitting a brick wall. Tripp Cobra Mags have a HUGE coutout in the rear, so this isn't a big problem with the Tripps, but I've had MUCH better luck with the metalforms. Hope the info helps some other folks.

I wear both plugs and muffs. I have the cheap muffs from whatever bargain box store I can find and with both devices in place they work great. As you progress you will learn to call your shots as the trigger breaks. Listening for a hit will become a thing of the past. There are drills you can do to practice the skill of calling your shot. Searching this forum would be a great place to start. Once you learn how to call your shots, your times will go down greatly.

I just wanted to post a little update on my Trojan. The thing is running 100% now, and I couldn't be happier with this gun. I actually thought about selling it a few weeks ago, but I decided to keep it. I am really glad I did. Once the single stack 1911 9mm bugs get worked out and the gun is broken in, and the right magazine combination is found for the gun, this little Trojan just rocks!

I have been working on this transition as well. For me, the magic was in the arched main spring housing with a short trigger. I purchased the Colt polymer arched mainspring houseing for about $10. World of difference! Just shot a match last weekend in USPSA single stack MINOR with my Trojan 9mm with the new set-up. The GUN shot 90% of the open and limited guys shooting MAJOR. HUGE difference! Lot's of folks shoot the flat msh. Lot's of folks shoot the arched msh. The arched works for me. A $10 part is worth trying.

Are you oiling the trigger bar/connector properly. If the gun is dry, you may be having some problems there. Trigger spring is a good check. Also, the connector may be pressing too hard against the trigger bar not allowing the striker spring to bring the trigger forward when the cruciform hits the striker.