PatJones Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd be happier if I thought that the rules would allow my carry gun to be legal (G22 with RMR and CTC Railmaster) or its AIWB holster location. it seams kind of funny to me that they changed the name away from Production then go and make the rules like production. Junk carry is legal in open.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The haters have a scary attraction to this thread that borders on the hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) The haters have a scary attraction to this thread that borders on the hilarious Seriously. Edited July 25, 2015 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) if this new division is really meant strickly to support the personal protection concealed carry market type firearm then they should be making up a new rule set...I'm sorry, I know you are a fan of WO But it sounds like IDPA is the place for this division based off of your own description. How long before they have to be concealed? How long before you can't drop a mag with rounds in it? How long before we are forced to include a bunch of ten round stages in our matches to accommodate the "carry" crowd? I.e one guy. I hear you but I'm not the one who labeled it 'carry optics" and provided approval rationale related to personal protection carry firearms. The BoD should stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. If they want a new division to support " ... emerging market for these types of firearms" then they need to make rule sets to match. Otherwise call it Production Optics & let all current Production list guns play within the optic rules they set ... If I wanted to stretch this "logic" a little further I should be allowed to shoot my Browning Buckmark in the SS division because, well it's a single stack gun , right? Labels & definitions do matter at some level so how hard is it to spend a little extra effort to get it right? Edited July 25, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinsr98 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Carry Optics (ok, the name sucks) It could be an awesome division if 1. Have major and minor scoring 2. 15 round limit for major 3. 17 round limit for minor Sometimes I amaze myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 15 or 17 yeah that will make this AWSOME. Sarge hurry up and order your new Gat. You may have to pick up another bus route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 why do we need to change the Production mag rd limit rules just because an optic is now allowed on the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 bad press is better than no press 1600 posts is the reason why this has gotten as far as it has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinsr98 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 why do we need to change the Production mag rd limit rules just because an optic is now allowed on the gun? You don't have to change the Production mag rd limit rules. Production division is Production division. It won't change. Carry Optic division is Carry Optic division. 2 different divisions can have 2 different sets of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd try it, just to try it. I've got a glock set up with a C-More STS on a dovetail mount that I use with a suppressor. I'd just remove the can and put the factory barrel back in and give CO a whirl with my Glock blaster. I occasionally shoot a local "tactical" match that allows similar sights. It seems to do fine for that one. But in the end, I'll probably stick with Limited and Open. I currently have exactly 4 Production classifiers on my record from 2002. Again, just to say I've tried it. I'm thinking CO might end up the same way for me. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If it's about carry guns, the round count should be 5 rounds because that is what my snub nose revolver holds. It also has to be frame mounted optic because revo,s don't have a slide. You can't leave out the revo's they are Prod. legal too! Hopefully come February next year this will be put to rest(RIP), then we can get to a more serious new Divisions in the works. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Though they're legal for production, you can't put a dot on an 8-shot revolver. Even the scandium framed models weigh too much. The weight limit seems very arbitrary. If it's so important to protect the Glocks, just give them their own division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Though they're legal for production, you can't put a dot on an 8-shot revolver. Even the scandium framed models weigh too much. The weight limit seems very arbitrary. If it's so important to protect the Glocks, just give them their own division. Then we are back to GSSF? I'm not a fan of adding any division like this but I feel they may kill it by calling it carry optics. USPSA is not about carry guns per say. PO made more sense as a splinter group of Production using mostly Production rules. Now the door has been opened to 15 rounds, frame mounted optics, this gun is legal, that gun isn't. It went from a simple unnecessary division to a complicated unnecessary division thanks to a few seemingly minor changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) if this new division is really meant strickly to support the personal protection concealed carry market type firearm then they should be making up a new rule set...I'm sorry, I know you are a fan of WO But it sounds like IDPA is the place for this division based off of your own description.How long before they have to be concealed? How long before you can't drop a mag with rounds in it? How long before we are forced to include a bunch of ten round stages in our matches to accommodate the "carry" crowd? I.e one guy. I hear you but I'm not the one who labeled it 'carry optics" and provided approval rationale related to personal protection carry firearms. The BoD should stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. If they want a new division to support " ... emerging market for these types of firearms" then they need to make rule sets to match. Otherwise call it Production Optics & let all current Production list guns play within the optic rules they set ...If I wanted to stretch this "logic" a little further I should be allowed to shoot my Browning Buckmark in the SS division because, well it's a single stack gun , right? Labels & definitions do matter at some level so how hard is it to spend a little extra effort to get it right? minimum bullet diameters and case rule rules out 22's Edited July 25, 2015 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Carry Optics is a terrible name, this isn't IDPA... So the point of the weight limit is to prevent another division dominated by CZs and Tanfos? But is it really the weight of them that makes them so popular in Production? I don't have one, but when shooting minor I don't think the weight makes much of a difference; at least I don't think it matters for me when comparing my G34 to my 9mm 1911s. I think it's more the trigger on the tuned CZs and Tanfos that makes them so popular in Production, right? So maybe instead of a weight limit we should have a minimum trigger pull, in both DA and SA, of say 4.5 or 5 lbs. That way you can still use your CZ, but can't have that amazing ~2lb. trigger like on your Production gun. I'd think this might help "even the playing field" compared to the polymer guns they're trying to market this new division towards while still allowing steel framed guns if that's your preferred platform. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Carry Optics is a terrible name, this isn't IDPA... So the point of the weight limit is to prevent another division dominated by CZs and Tanfos? But is it really the weight of them that makes them so popular in Production? I don't have one, but when shooting minor I don't think the weight makes much of a difference; at least I don't think it matters for me when comparing my G34 to my 9mm 1911s. I think it's more the trigger on the tuned CZs and Tanfos that makes them so popular in Production, right? So maybe instead of a weight limit we should have a minimum trigger pull, in both DA and SA, of say 4.5 or 5 lbs. That way you can still use your CZ, but can't have that amazing ~2lb. trigger like on your Production gun. I'd think this might help "even the playing field" compared to the polymer guns they're trying to market this new division towards while still allowing steel framed guns if that's your preferred platform. Thoughts? Lol There are a LOT of plastic gamer triggers out there, I suggest you don your flame suit immediately! Steel guns are not the only ones with gamer triggers. One of the reasons the CZ's and Tanfoglio's dominate IPSC is they can meet the 5# minimum first shot trigger pull. With the plastic gamers, they are stuck with a 5# pull every shot. There, that is the difference. It's not the weight, it's not the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 why do we need to change the Production mag rd limit rules just because an optic is now allowed on the gun?You don't have to change the Production mag rd limit rules. Production division is Production division. It won't change. Carry Optic division is Carry Optic division. 2 different divisions can have 2 different sets of rules. but that's my point, they are not making a new set of rules ... except for that ridiculous weight limit rule change, it is Production rules with the new optic rules added ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 .... then we can get to a more serious new Divisions in the works. Rich can't wait to hear what you think that will be .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) if this new division is really meant strickly to support the personal protection concealed carry market type firearm then they should be making up a new rule set...I'm sorry, I know you are a fan of WO But it sounds like IDPA is the place for this division based off of your own description. How long before they have to be concealed? How long before you can't drop a mag with rounds in it? How long before we are forced to include a bunch of ten round stages in our matches to accommodate the "carry" crowd? I.e one guy. I hear you but I'm not the one who labeled it 'carry optics" and provided approval rationale related to personal protection carry firearms. The BoD should stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. If they want a new division to support " ... emerging market for these types of firearms" then they need to make rule sets to match. Otherwise call it Production Optics & let all current Production list guns play within the optic rules they set ... If I wanted to stretch this "logic" a little further I should be allowed to shoot my Browning Buckmark in the SS division because, well it's a single stack gun , right? Labels & definitions do matter at some level so how hard is it to spend a little extra effort to get it right? minimum bullet diameters and case rule rules out 22's they are making other arbitrary rule changes (weight) so why not these too .... Edited July 26, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 leave it to our BoD to take something that was fairly straight forward .... "Production guns will now be allowed to have a slide mounted optic ..." and turn it into a flaming nightmare .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sounds like the rules are written that way to fit the division of "carry" optics better. It will keep out most metal guns with the 33oz limit and also keep the polymer guns from getting too "fat" with the 4oz restrictions. Addressing a potential equipment race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Carry Optics is a terrible name, this isn't IDPA... So the point of the weight limit is to prevent another division dominated by CZs and Tanfos? But is it really the weight of them that makes them so popular in Production? I don't have one, but when shooting minor I don't think the weight makes much of a difference; at least I don't think it matters for me when comparing my G34 to my 9mm 1911s. I think it's more the trigger on the tuned CZs and Tanfos that makes them so popular in Production, right? So maybe instead of a weight limit we should have a minimum trigger pull, in both DA and SA, of say 4.5 or 5 lbs. That way you can still use your CZ, but can't have that amazing ~2lb. trigger like on your Production gun. I'd think this might help "even the playing field" compared to the polymer guns they're trying to market this new division towards while still allowing steel framed guns if that's your preferred platform. Thoughts? Lol There are a LOT of plastic gamer triggers out there, I suggest you don your flame suit immediately! Steel guns are not the only ones with gamer triggers. One of the reasons the CZ's and Tanfoglio's dominate IPSC is they can meet the 5# minimum first shot trigger pull. With the plastic gamers, they are stuck with a 5# pull every shot. There, that is the difference. It's not the weight, it's not the cost. (flame suit ready ) I know that's the IPSC rule and that's why I said make a minimum trigger pull for both DA and SA. And I know it's not just the steel guns that can be tuned to have great triggers; this rule would apply to all guns. I think it'd even out any advantage the trigger could have and then it's more about choosing whatever gun you prefer and not just about which can be modded to have the best trigger. I'd also support adding this rule to Production, but that's a discussion for another thread. I've tried the trigger on a CZ Custom gun and it would rival a nice 1911 trigger; that certainly doesn't seem like a "production" trigger to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 bad press is better than no press 1600 posts is the reason why this has gotten as far as it has Usually I would agree with you, but the last thing USPSA needs is another division. Especially one that exists for a niche that already fits into an existing division......OPEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baparker13 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 By that logic then, there should only be two divisions ...production and open. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 By that logic then, there should only be one division ...open. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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