have you ever had the thought of questioning someone ammo?

[ProGunGuy]

I watch a lot of shooters and many time I wonder if their ammo makes PF. These are mostly club matches so its all just bragging rights anyways. I have brought my chrono to a few matches to verify my loads after the match. Seeing that there was a chrono, many shooters asked if they could throw some lead over it and see how fast they be going. I would say that 40% of the people, mostly the minor guys, did not make PF.

So have you ever brought into question the ammo people use and if it make PF? Or just MYOB.

[HoMiE]

I don't think a lot of shooters intentionally try to cheat and not make PF, but I do think a lot of shooters don't know that their load doesn't make PF. You simply can't just take someone else load and try it in your gun and think well they made PF at such and such match so it should work in my gun. Every chrono is different, so you should test your load with multiple chrono. I know usually before a bigger match sometimes people will bring their chrono so people can check their load if they dont have access to chrono.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Pro, after taking 12 years off - I got back into reloading

Using 15 year old powder

Boy, was I surprised when I shot a popper four times and

it never fell - little embarassing.

At level 1 matches, the poppers are probably enough of a

"measurement" of PF, IMHO.

[Skydiver]

Around here, what I've noticed is that there will be some friendly ribbing and joking about "being able to see the bullet fly downrange in slow motion" or "that bullet couldn't even knock over a plate". If somebody brought a chrono, then it comes out later after the match with some peer pressure.

I like the friendly ribbing. I feel that the peer pressure is just a few steps away from bullying, though.

[BSeevers]

In my match director days I often had a surprise chrono. Usually 40-60% didn't make power.

Now if somebody chronos 163 they are probably not cheating but say 149? uh yea that aint a mistake

[Flatland Shooter]

Had some problems with gun cycling last year. Someone mentioned that my brass landed in a nice pile about two feet away. Since I never mess with the powder measure, these loads had to make "major".

Did a little checking and found that a mud dauber(large black wasp) had climbed into my powder measure and died. Lowered my PF from 170+ to under 155. In the heat of battle, I never noticed the difference in recoil or dot movement.

The good news is it was figured out just before Area 4 and not after.

Bill

[P.E. Kelley]

In my match director days I often had a surprise chrono. Usually 40-60% didn't make power.

Now if somebody chronos 163 they are probably not cheating but say 149? uh yea that aint a mistake

Mirrors my MD days!

I would have a couple of guy steaming mad because they got... Caught! The nerve of me. Hahaha

[MarkCO]

Many years ago, after I asked a top GM how he got his ammo to be so soft shooting, and after his condescending remark of "ain't the ammo, it is skill", I ended up picking up 2 pieces of his ammo after ULASC. Shot it through the same type of gun next time I got to the range and used his "declared" weight. Granted only 2 rounds, but both were about the same and the PF was 148, and this was when we were at the higher PF than now.

There might be a few guys that run known lower PF ammo at local matches, but I know they are just hurting themselves when they shoot a major. I get a little less wrapped up about it now realizing that cheating will catch up with most people and I am not willing to allow them to rob me of my relaxation/shooting time to prove they are a cheater. They already know they are a cheater.

[BillChunn]

The dead giveaway is when the bullet sticks in the cardboard.... :-)

One Master class shooter was known for providing "chrono" loads. At a state championship, one of the RO's picked up his discarded magazine and stripped out 8 rounds. A notice was posted on the weeping wall for the shooter to report back to chrono. When he didn't show up, the MD found him on the range and told him to report to chrono as soon as possible

He didn't go.

They changed him to minor.

[Thomas H]

I watch a lot of shooters and many time I wonder if their ammo makes PF. These are mostly club matches so its all just bragging rights anyways. I have brought my chrono to a few matches to verify my loads after the match. Seeing that there was a chrono, many shooters asked if they could throw some lead over it and see how fast they be going. I would say that 40% of the people, mostly the minor guys, did not make PF.

[emphasis added by me]

Good lord. 40% don't make minor? My gun won't cycle if I drop it that low!

At our club, we don't chrono for local matches. At least, I've never seen it in 7-8 years shooting there.

[Babaganoosh]

I think a chrono should be present at every match, or at least the majority of them. It will help to keep people honest. It's not going to stop someone who is determined to cheat though. It will keep the guys who say in their head "Everyone else does it so I might as well do it too" from lowering their powder a bit.

I think the chrono station is a good time. We have a nice camaraderie in our squads so if you don't make PF you best get ready to be the butt of jokes for the day. It also lets people who don't have a chrono see their velocities. Everyone who reloads should have a chrono. However a lot don't.

[h4444]

I'm running a load the made major in my old SS. Since coming back and not having a chrono anymore, I'm running the same load in my new SS. I KNOW that means jack in terms of making it or not. I'm not intentionally cheating, I went straight to a known load that used to get me where I wanted to be, If I can't chrono before my major in late October, I'll load up a batch of match ammo just a touch hotter just to be sure, I have room to safely up the load a bit. It isn't intentional, just a lack of equipment and range time.

Besides, I have to shoot unclassified at this major,,,,,so if I accidentally go minor (which I highly doubt), it probably isn't going to be the end of the world since I'll be shooting against the GM's anyway and I'm NOT a GM.....but, I'm not a cheater either.

Byron

[a.roberts]

I'm usually too busy doing other things to watch someone else that closely.

[Yagi]

Always makes me laugh when someone tells me that my loads are minor... "as they say... my pistol does not recoil that much"....i would be more than welcome to chrono my load in front of them anytime.... before the 2011 nationals, someone ask if he can shoot my pistol for a few rounds... lo and behold... the recoil must have been 4"-5" high from the muzzle...i never change my load and last year my chrono at the nationals was 174pf ..all i can say is... my grip pressure is a lot more than yours...lol...

[BSeevers]

In my match director days I often had a surprise chrono. Usually 40-60% didn't make power.

Now if somebody chronos 163 they are probably not cheating but say 149? uh yea that aint a mistake

Mirrors my MD days!

I would have a couple of guy steaming mad because they got... Caught! The nerve of me. Hahaha

I forgot to say that was in the good old 175 PF days too Probably had something to do with fail rates

[P.E. Kelley]

In my match director days I often had a surprise chrono. Usually 40-60% didn't make power.

Now if somebody chronos 163 they are probably not cheating but say 149? uh yea that aint a mistake

Mirrors my MD days!

I would have a couple of guy steaming mad because they got... Caught! The nerve of me. Hahaha

I forgot to say that was in the good old 175 PF days too Probably had something to do with fail rates

Me too mister…I R Old.

[blind bat]

I've seen WAY too many squibs this season. If I were the match director I'd start setting up a chrono station at our local matches. Not to bust anyone but to keep people hurting themselves.

[GrumpyOne]

I've seen WAY too many squibs this season. If I were the match director I'd start setting up a chrono station at our local matches. Not to bust anyone but to keep people hurting themselves.

I agree.... I've seen quite a few squibs this year....and we definitely need people to keep hurting themselves....

I do think a local chrono, unannounced, once or twice a season, would go a long way to keeping people honest.

[Shokr21]

I get some ribbing from some of my shooting friends about the velocity of my rounds. But everytime we chrono I'm always right around 135 for my production rig.

When they give me crap I just shoot their guns. I have big hands and just strangle the pistol into not jolting during recoil.

Cannot wait to get my 1911 back and shoot .45's the same way.

I do think there is some flubbing at our local matches when it comes to the limited and open shooters that only shoot local matches. But they aren't normally pressuring the leaders so the ribbing happens but no one really cares.

[kevin c]

Crikey, my Production Glocks won't even run reliably unless my ammo is at 135 PF...

No chrono locally for club matches, but we do have one readily available, now that we have a dedicated bay for it. I don't remember seeing any shooter locally whose ammo is suspect. My friends are competitive, but want to win based on their skill and performance.

[kevin c]

...A notice was posted on the weeping wall for the shooter to report back to chrono. When he didn't show up, the MD found him on the range and told him to report to chrono as soon as possible

He didn't go.

They changed him to minor.

I don't have the RB in front of me, but I think he was lucky to have had a final score posted for the match.

[OUshooter]

I've seen WAY too many squibs this season. If I were the match director I'd start setting up a chrono station at our local matches. Not to bust anyone but to keep people hurting themselves.

I guess I don't see the connection between squibs and intentionally not making PF. Squibs are generally the result of a breakdown in one's reloading QC. I'm a little disheartened in the fact that the general consensus among shooters is that cheating is rampant, and everyone is out for themselves. Yes there will always be folks that skirt the rules, but mostly people just don't know.

[MGMorden]

Never saw a required chrono stage at a local match, but several times I've seen the MD set one up for people to check their loads if they so wished - typically prior to a major match.

Realistically I think it keeps honest people honest. The true cheaters can always just give the "special" ammo to the chrono guy.

Heck I was shooting a match up at a nearby club a while back and they had an optional chrono. I was RO'ing for my squad for most of the day and one guy had told me that he was curious about his .40S&W Limited load. He had declared minor because he wasn't sure it would make Major. We ran chrono and he came in at 129PF . Perfectly legal since he'd declared minor, but strange that he thought that load had any hope of making major.

Edited September 28, 2012 by MGMorden

[blind bat]

OUShooter - 100% agree with you. I'm just saying I question peoples ammo more from a safety perspective rather than poor sportsmanship. Steel has a way of punishing the sub-minor shooters.

Declaring major and purposely shooting minor is a different story. That's just a dick move.

[OUshooter]

OUShooter - 100% agree with you. I'm just saying I question peoples ammo more from a safety perspective rather than poor sportsmanship. Steel has a way of punishing the sub-minor shooters.

Declaring major and purposely shooting minor is a different story. That's just a dick move.

I definitely hear where you are coming from. Unfortunately USPSA rules don't really allow us to question a shooter's ammo from a safety standpoint as much as they do a PF standpoint. If a shooter has 2 squibs on back to back stages all a RO can do is ask that they use a different batch. We had a discussion about this recently with "unsafe ammo". I will have to see if I can find it.