What can we do to make USPSA grow?

[Poppa Bear]

I shoot USPSA at 5 different ranges. Almost all of them are having their best year ever. 80 shooters, 65 shooters, etc. Most of these clubs have 4-6 bays available. You can start pushing 15-18 shooters per squad, which means a match I used to shoot in 3 hours will now take 6 hours and I don't get any more shooting.

Without significant dirt work (expensive dirt work) these ranges won't have bays available for more shooters. Very few facilities I have seen have the bays or personnel for a 100 person club match. The same MD's and RO's, setup crew, etc will be working on this.

The same scores guy/gal will now be doing twice the work. This is a volunteer sport, people get burned out. No shotgun starts? Then the staff gets to stay there until after dark to finish tearing down stages?

Poppa Bear, this is in Indiana, as Midwest as it gets.

If I lived in the Twin Cities area I could shoot a different match most every weekend with 60+ shooters. They are some of the 4+ hour drives I am talking about. I wish it was easier to get more shooters in the lesser populated areas.

[retarmyaviator]

What are the other incentives to join USPSA ...

I have a great answer for that. I think I even have it on a bumper sticker on my home laptop (can't find it at the USPSA store or I'd post a pic). It says something like...

I support the sport. USPSA.

Don't think that by itself is going to bring in many new members. The NRA has been shouting similar for over 141 years and they still haven't captured the majority of firearms owners.

I took some of USPSA's promotional material to a local match and could not give it away.

[BillD]

I shoot USPSA at 5 different ranges. Almost all of them are having their best year ever. 80 shooters, 65 shooters, etc. Most of these clubs have 4-6 bays available. You can start pushing 15-18 shooters per squad, which means a match I used to shoot in 3 hours will now take 6 hours and I don't get any more shooting.

Without significant dirt work (expensive dirt work) these ranges won't have bays available for more shooters. Very few facilities I have seen have the bays or personnel for a 100 person club match. The same MD's and RO's, setup crew, etc will be working on this.

The same scores guy/gal will now be doing twice the work. This is a volunteer sport, people get burned out. No shotgun starts? Then the staff gets to stay there until after dark to finish tearing down stages?

Poppa Bear, this is in Indiana, as Midwest as it gets.

If I lived in the Twin Cities area I could shoot a different match most every weekend with 60+ shooters. They are some of the 4+ hour drives I am talking about. I wish it was easier to get more shooters in the lesser populated areas.

Lower population, lower population of competition minded pistol shooters.

[CHA-LEE]

What are the other incentives to join USPSA other than participation at the higher level matches and a quarterly magazine? I belong to USPSA but of late have found myself asking why. My local club shoots three matches per month and is 15 minutes from my house. Am I interested in participating at higher level matches? Not all that much, I enjoy shooting with friends at the local matches and it is more about that than the competition aspect of USPSA. Can I do that without USPSA? Yes, so what is USPSA to do to increase the interest of shooters like myself to join?

Please don't get me wrong, I joined USPSA months before I ever participated in a match and I feel an obligation to belong since USPSA provides support for the game. Shooting in these matches is a hobby for me, not a life style which puts me in the position of being able to enjoy this with or without USPSA.

The first question to answer is does USPSA want to grow or is it happy with the current state of things?

Second, what do they offer the shooter that only participates in local matches?

And third, what are they doing to keep the members they already have?

I think you are selling USPSA a little short. There is a lot that USPSA offers shooters that only attend local matches. The Competition Rules that we use in order to host an effective USPSA is a huge thing that people often overlook. NROI is continually honing these rules to make them more effective for all levels of shooting within USPSA. These competition rules don't magically happen on their own. Its also very important to know that no mater what USPSA club you go to they will be running their match based on the same rules.

The other main benefit to being a USPSA member is the classification system. Sure the classification system isn't perfect but it at least provided some level of national ranking so you can know how your current skill level applies to the rest of the USPSA membership.

[GrumpyOne]

I personally don't want EVERY gun owner on a stage with me. I mean, really, have you seen some of these guys walking around at gun shows??

I think the sport is doing just fine. Those that want to find it, will find it. I did.

Here, here!

What USPSA needs to emphasize is its safety record, its practical roots, and that it is a sport, like any other, that is governed by rules, which will be followed at every level of competition, giving all competitors the same USPSA shooting experience, whether they be at their home club, or another 1,000 miles away.

[GrumpyOne]

One other problem with growth is that most clubs are not USPSA clubs but rather gun clubs and the facilities are used by many disciplines. AN example is Old Bridge. We have Steel Challenge, 'Real Steel', Knock-down steel, IDPA, Rimfire Action, High-power, Shotgun (2x), Muzzle loader and we need some open time. There is simply no range time to run another match.

Also we have within 2 hours of our club 9 total USPSA matches. That is already more than one per weekend. Run it out a little further and you get two per weekend day already. And none of these venues has open time for another match.

I don't think we're talking about expanding existing matches beyond their capacity, or asking existing clubs to hold a second monthly match. Now, if we could get more clubs onboard, and allow you to shoot somewhere within one hour every weekend day, and if match staff/range officers/shooters materialized to actually fill these new venues, then we'd grow the sport....

That's the ticket, more clubs, closer.... I have one club 30 minutes away, the rest more than 90 minutes.

[remoandiris]

Then the staff gets to stay there until after dark to finish tearing down stages?

What? You mean competitors leave before they tear down/put away everything?

[GrumpyOne]

What are the other incentives to join USPSA ...

I have a great answer for that. I think I even have it on a bumper sticker on my home laptop (can't find it at the USPSA store or I'd post a pic). It says something like...

I support the sport. USPSA.

If you like shooting USPSA (and Steel Challenge, and Multi-gun)...make sure to support the organization. Be sure to get in the mix and help out at matches. After all, other than the home office, Prez and DNROI...we are all volunteers. The matches and the organization don't happen unless we make it happen.

Flex, you find where I can get those stickers, and you'll start seeing them everywhere.

The Central Florida Section Coordinator, Tony Hyatt, who is an awesome guy to shoot with, and a great guy to be around, has the USPSA logo tattooed on the back of his calf.

[BillD]

Then the staff gets to stay there until after dark to finish tearing down stages?

What? You mean competitors leave before they tear down/put away everything?

We always tear down the stages but the crew comes around with wagons or trucks and picks it up to take to the storage building.

[Hi-Power Jack]

only 1 came out twice. He got DQ'ed the second time and hasn't been back.

A real unpopular thought - should we be more lenient with DQ's

for beginners - more hands on supervision - more direction -

rather than losing people after they've been DQ'd?

Yes, rules are important - but, some friendly, helpful flexibility might help

grow the sport by encouraging "newbies" to stay with us.

[GrumpyOne]

only 1 came out twice. He got DQ'ed the second time and hasn't been back.

A real unpopular thought - should we be more lenient with DQ's

for beginners - more hands on supervision - more direction -

rather than losing people after they've been DQ'd?

Yes, rules are important - but, some friendly, helpful flexibility might help

grow the sport by encouraging "newbies" to stay with us.

Probably just as unpopular, maybe we should make all newbies only watch their "first" match, let them ask questions, and give them a printed copy of the rule book, and point out what sections will pertain to them the most, and invite them back, letting them "shoot" their

real first match for free, paying only the classifier fee.

[Flexmoney]

only 1 came out twice. He got DQ'ed the second time and hasn't been back.

A real unpopular thought - should we be more lenient with DQ's

for beginners - more hands on supervision - more direction -

rather than losing people after they've been DQ'd?

Yes, rules are important - but, some friendly, helpful flexibility might help

grow the sport by encouraging "newbies" to stay with us.

NO.

The greater risk there is running off the established folks we already have...who do come out every month. I might start a thread for this very topic.

[sperman]

The minute we sacrafice safety in order to bring in new shooters you will start losing the older more experienced shooters. Is that a trade off you are willing to make?

This game isn't for everyone. Running around with guns requires that safety be the #1 priority at all times. If someone isn't comfortable with that, or capable of that, maybe they don't need to be playing this game. I'm not losing any sleep over the guy that DQ's at his first match and never comes back. Maybe he wasn't going to come back anyway.

I know a few guys who had problems at their first match, decided they liked it enough to work out those problems and went on to become successful shooters. Those are the people we want around.

[lawboy]

The minute we sacrafice safety in order to bring in new shooters you will start losing the older more experienced shooters. Is that a trade off you are willing to make?

This game isn't for everyone. Running around with guns requires that safety be the #1 priority at all times. If someone isn't comfortable with that, or capable of that, maybe they don't need to be playing this game. I'm not losing any sleep over the guy that DQ's at his first match and never comes back. Maybe he wasn't going to come back anyway.

I know a few guys who had problems at their first match, decided they liked it enough to work out those problems and went on to become successful shooters. Those are the people we want around.

+1000. The minute we start degrading the safety standard I will be out the door. Period. I am not going to risk my hide shooting with people who think safety is to be compromised for any reasons, especially to bring in people who we KNOW are a safety risk due to ignorance and low mean levels of knowledge and skill. You simply must be kidding even bringing that up as a viable plan!

[OperationHitFactor]

Disclaimer - For the record, I'm not saying I want this. I'm just going to type this out off the cuff. I would need to research and brainstorm to really come up with better input, but since this is just for discussion purpose, here we go.

The real question is do we want the USPSA to grow in numbers or grow as a sport? The next question would be, how much do we want it to grow? These questions would have to be answered first before any projections or membership forecast could be made. The first question a business or organization needs to answer is, "How big do we want to be?". In order to accomplish a goal, a business or organization as in the USPSA needs to come up with a goal to achieve. I know that sounds simple, but I promise this is much much harder to do in practice.

Let's start with money, green backs, paper, cheddar, that stuff that makes the world go round.

Let's set a big goal - I want the USPSA to generate 60 million in gross revenue at the match level yearly by 2025.

Now I don't know the actual numbers, so I am going to make some up as an example.

The USPSA has 20,000 members which attend an average of 5 matches per year at an average cost of $20 per match.

So 20,000 x 5 x 20 = 2,000,000 means we are 58 million from our goal. FYI - The answer to this is not charging more money to attend matches.

USPSA can accomplish massive match level finacial growth, but it would require a change at the foundation of the USPSA, which would be a huge risk. Now I'm not saying I am for any of this, but I'm throwing it out on the table.

Mainstream sports or sports that make money in general have one thing in common. Spectators

NHL, NFL, NBA, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, Soccer, pick your poison.

The key isn't to get the gun owning population to come join the USPSA to shoot matches with us. The key to really growing, would be getting the gun owning population to come watch us dress up in our romper suits with logos on the back. This would in turn actually make the logos and branding, some what useful

Now we need to look at our sport from a spectators perspective. For us the USPSA is an absolute riot to participate in for us 20,000. What about people that come to watch? Most of the time they can't even tell what is going on, who is good, or who is that man holding a beer can next to the shooter's ear.

Look around your next match, are there any spectators outside of maybe a few family memebers or a couple resentful kids. There is no shade, no seats, and no way to see what is going on out in the bay.

From an outsider's perspective -

Person one- It looks like that guy with Bang Bang Custom on his shirt is having fun.

Person two- Yup. What is Bang Bang Custom?

Person one- Some company that makes these really expensive guns that cost like 25 thousand dollars.

Person two- Oh yeah I heard about them. It's no wonder they can shoot so quick. You don't even have to aim. I hear they are terrible for self defense. Jam a lot and break.

Person one- Damn this sun is killing me and there is no where to sit.

Person two- Let's go

Ok you get the point. If we had a sport that welcomed spectators more, was exciting to watch in person or on film, the sky would be the limit. So, how do we do this? Well for starters we need to make the sport exciting to watch on TV and Internet for people who aren't in the USPSA. The only way to do this would be a change in the foundation, More steel,texas stars, maybe clay pigeons, a target that hits were easy to spot by spectators. Have places to sit and maybe some shade from the star on fire in the sky. If people started to watch it and get hooked, they probably would show up and watch the sport, check out vendor booths, grab a hot dog, have a good time. Eventually, spectators would pay a $5 admission fee, vendors would be trying to pay to get a booth, and companies would spend good money on ads at the top of the berms.

This in turn would get clubs to host a better, more complex match, and pay the RO's, MD's, AD's, RD's, RM's. This would make the USPSA grow as a sport.

I'm going to stop here... for now

[BritinUSA]

Watching matches on the Internet is already starting to happen. The lack of good network coverage is currently the only limiting factor. A range with a good wifi setup connected to high speed Internet and we have essentially live coverage of the match.

There is no network connectivity at the Nationals range in Vegas so it won't work there, but it should be available for the US-IPSC Nationals and hopefully the Area 3.

Edited July 26, 2012 by BritinUSA

[OperationHitFactor]

Watching matches on the Internet is already starting to happen. The lack of good network coverage is currently the only limiting factor. A range with a good wifi setup connected to high speed Internet and we have essentially live coverage of the match.

There is no network connectivity at the Nationals range in Vegas so it won't work there, but it should be available for the US-IPSC Nationals and hopefully the Area 3.

You were one of the people I had in mind. You're role and ideas are exactly what the USPSA needs. If I had a couple million dollars I'd throw it your way to get the ball rolling. I don't, but if any venture capitalist are out there, here is your chance.

[Neomet]

Two quick observations from Phoenix which is a hotbed of shooting activity:

Point 1. Tuesday Night Steel is a quasi-USPSA style match with steel only. No complex stages, nothing that requires B level skills to do reasonably well at. Average attendance at those matches is 160 plus per match. Our USPSA matches usually run around 60 shooters. I have seen beginning shooters struggle quite a bit with the challenges of a well set up challenging stage. I have seen the frustration in their faces. I often do not see them back after a couple weeks of this but they still go to TNS. My story about this is that if you want to keep shooters who stick their toes in our waters, have easier COFs so they don't feel like Simple Jack with a gun. Not saying I like easier COFs, just answering the question.

Point 2. With 60 shooters at our local match it normally takes between 3-4 hours to shoot a match. If you double the number of shooters you are talking 6-8 hours. Triple it and you will need to mount a flashlight to finish. Frankly, not what I am looking for.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Neomet

[Hi-Power Jack]

With 60 shooters at our local match it normally takes between 3-4 hours to shoot a match. If you double the number of shooters you are talking 6-8 hours. Frankly, not what I am looking for.

Excellent point!!

Do we REALLY want to increase the number of USPSA shooters?

I've never run a match, but I guess there's an optimum number

of participants (I'm not sure what that is) ???

Seems like we've exceeded that number at a whole bunch of

matches I've been at.

Is there a financial reason to increase the number of participants?

As many have said, I'd personally prefer to have a handful of

very careful, experienced shooters at MY match. But, is there

a minimum number necessary for financial reasons?

[CHA-LEE]

I have been thinking about this topic a lot today. One aspect that we are missing here is the "Competition Factor". Even though there are millions of gun owners in the USA only a very small subset of those gun owners are also interested in participating in competitive activities. Then out of that small subset of competitive gun owners an even smaller subset are interested in competitive handgun shooting. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of gun owners are simply "Plinkers" that like to go out and shoot once in a while for the simple enjoyment of shooting.

As much as we would like to say "I only shoot USPSA for fun and am not competitive" we all know that statement is false. We all show up and compete to the best of our ability for some competitive reason or another which feeds the competitive needs we desire. The different levels of competitiveness is endless. For some its all about beating your buddy, shooting a clean match, winning a national title, or anything in between. In the end we are still competing for something and crave the competition. Its what drives us to keep coming back.

Shooters who do not have this need for competition will never be long term USPSA shooters. They may do it here or there for the fun of shooting but at some point they just don't see the point in it since they don't care about competition. These are most of the shooters that come to a few matches and never come back.

Ok, where am I going with this........... The point I am trying to make is that our marketing for USPSA matches should not be focused on the general shooting community (gun stores, gun shows, tactical guys, other shooting event, NRA members, etc) . It should be focused on other competitive sports that are non-shooting related. The people I am talking about are the ones who participate in Auto Racing, Golf, Basket Ball, Base Ball, Bike Racing, Track & Field, Team Sports, etc. These are the people who would truly enjoy the competitive environment of USPSA style matches. Maybe we should venture out of our "Shooting Community" comfort zone to look for more USPSA shooters?

[kevinj308]

It should be focused on other competitive sports that are non-shooting related. The people I am talking about are the ones who participate in Auto Racing, Golf, Basket Ball, Base Ball, Bike Racing, Track & Field, Team Sports, etc. These are the people who would truly enjoy the competitive environment of USPSA style matches. Maybe we should venture out of our "Shooting Community" comfort zone to look for more USPSA shooters?

YES!!!!! Very good point. Most of the people I've met at matches have come there from another competitive hobby. Interestingly enough a lot of them from radio control car/plane racing. Seems to be a very similar kind of scene, both from the competition and the amount of money required to compete.

Kevin

[pskys2]

I know it's not a popular stance but...

One thing to remember, it will only take 1 bad actor to wipe out decades of progress that have been made by USPSA.

Making it easier, or even just widening the pool of competitors, could easily cause more problems.

If you want to help the shooting sports grow, focus on training newbies and don't molly coddle them.

I've always felt this sport is using serious equipment and not for everyone.

[Sarge]

Making it easier, or even just widening the pool of competitors, could easily cause more problems.

Same thing happened to a local club. There was a mad rush of new applicants over the last few years. There were discussions about limiting new members but things were going fine and the facility was handling the influx well.

Then, slowly, it started. Safety infractions started happening, people were bringing TV's to shoot up on the grounds, members were bringing whole carloads of "guests" who were less than considerate of the clubs property. You get the general idea.

If ten of these characters were to show up at a match that squad would be a tragedy just looking for a place to happen.

[Sheperd80]

I personally don't want EVERY gun owner on a stage with me. I mean, really, have you seen some of these guys walking around at gun shows??

I think the sport is doing just fine. Those that want to find it, will find it. I did.

I have to agree. Sure a little more interest would be good to up the game a little. But there is a sector of the gun community that should just stick to shooting at the pile of toilets in their backyard from the couch on their porch if u know what i mean.

[Sarge]

But there is a sector of the gun community that should just stick to shooting at the pile of toilets in their backyard from the couch on their porch if u know what i mean.

Come everybody! Be honest. That is so true.