Start Positions in matches

[remoandiris]

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

Since when does anything about our "game" have to do with training for a gunfight? I thought that was the other 4-letter org that is the "real shooting sport".

[Supermoto]

I rather see stage designer put effort and creativity in the stage design than the start position. Usually the more elaborate the start position, the worse the stage.

[sperman]

I like variety. I don't mind stages that have the mags scattered throughout the stage, but I hate stages that make you stand there and stuff mags into your mag pouches. The limited and open guys usually only have to deal with 1 extra mag, but for the other divisions the stage ends up being more about stowing mags than about shooting.

[Sarge]

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

Since when does anything about our "game" have to do with training for a gunfight? I thought that was the other 4-letter org that is the "real shooting sport".

It doesn't but it's still "practical" shooting.

[Jadeslade]

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

That stuff simply takes away from the shooting.

Obviously you are not a MIami Vice fan. Sonny takes down Ted Nugent in a gunfight at a sand dune gunfight with a bulletproof case.

[bikerburgess]

I voted for all the above, I have not run into one that I did not like or at least learn something from.

Ps a stage designer having you carry a doll or whatever is a better way to simulate an injury to the holding hand than hitting it with a hammer.:-)

[carter300]

I like variation. The only one I don't like is lying down. Shooting production and having mag pouches to the center of my back are really not comfortable and I'm afraid I'll break one.

+1

[mikegot38]

Empty gun!

[Inkman]

I rarely see them but i really enjoy the stages which have a large shooting area with no start box or Xs to touch. Simply start anywhere inside the shooting area. That really makes you (me) think about how to shoot the stage instead of likely being guided from one side with a start box or Xs.

Al

[Skydiver]

I usually set up stages where start position is "Standing anywhere in shooting area". Now that the weather is getting better, I'm contemplating a "Kneeling with both knees on the ground anywhere in the shooting area". I better make sure my AAA is up to date in case my tires end up slashed.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Skydiver

[Joe4d]

I agree Sarge, this is a shooting sport, the stages should present shooting challenges. Not sprints, obstacle courses, fiddlefart doodads. There is a line between adding variety and creating distraction, and being stupid and not part of the sport.

If you spend more time on a stage doing something other than shooting, its a dumb stage.

[shooting for M]

I want everything from stand and shoot all the way to unloaded gun in a locked briefcase with magazines placed on barrels while hands are in a vat of ice water while naked .

A good mix of starts is where it's at I think, keeps things interesting. The more people complain the more I think they secretly like it.

[kevin c]

I like variation. The only one I don't like is lying down. Shooting production and having mag pouches to the center of my back are really not comfortable and I'm afraid I'll break one.

+1

+2

Mixing it up is a challenge, but lying on mags, or catching my middle of the back mag on a chair back is a bit annoying.

[lawboy]

I like creative start positions. To me, practical does not mean likely; a gunfight itself is unlikely. Instead, practical means mixing shooting with every day common tasks and getting the shooting done as efficiently and effectively as possible.

[Skydiver]

I like creative start positions. To me, practical does not mean likely; a gunfight itself is unlikely. Instead, practical means mixing shooting with every day common tasks and getting the shooting done as efficiently and effectively as possible.

So the so called "Tactical Crane" (aka "Karate Kid stance") would be okay as a start position for you?

Also somebody jokingly said yesterday that we should bring back the "hands in a bucket of icy, soapy water" as a start position.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Skydiver

[lawboy]

I like creative start positions. To me, practical does not mean likely; a gunfight itself is unlikely. Instead, practical means mixing shooting with every day common tasks and getting the shooting done as efficiently and effectively as possible.

So the so called "Tactical Crane" (aka "Karate Kid stance") would be okay as a start position for you?

Also somebody jokingly said yesterday that we should bring back the "hands in a bucket of icy, soapy water" as a start position.

I would not have a problem with it. I mean, what exactly would the problem be? I can assume the position and I can get out of it, draw my gun and get to shootin'. Seems like a doable start position to me!

[Skydiver]

I usually set up stages where start position is "Standing anywhere in shooting area". Now that the weather is getting better, I'm contemplating a "Kneeling with both knees on the ground anywhere in the shooting area". I better make sure my AAA is up to date in case my tires end up slashed.

Nice weather forecasted for this weekend... Hmmm...

[Nik Habicht]

I don't mind any "position" and don't care if it is loaded or unloaded but I absolutely hate , and see no use for, starts where you have to hold, carry or whatever, put your hands in ice water, etc, etc. They take away from the shooting and are certainly not practical.

It is a sport. Many things that people do are not "practical", so why should stage requirements be?

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

That stuff simply takes away from the shooting.

I know one club will have you start with an ammo can in your weak hand -- but you'll need to insert the ammo can in a specially designed box, later in the stage to activate a target, or to open a port....

I'm a lot happier when the prop I'm carrying actually serves a purpose...

[Yagi]

Start anywhere within the fault line.

[gunguru]

I don't care for starting position, as it's the same for all shooter.

But COF designer should remember than we are shooter, and it's a shooting sport, so yes the starting position may be different and fun, but the main concern need to be the COF and not the starting position.

[IL-SIG]

The variety of starts primarily makes you think about something other than shooting. I view this is an additional challenge, not whether or not the particular task is realistic or practical. It is simply a way of distracting the shooter from the task at hand, which in reality makes us better. Regardless of whether it causes us to shoot SH or WH or simply challenges our brain, it still is part of the development process. The shooters who do the best on these stages are often the people who can file the mental distraction away and simply focus on shooting. Seeing and doing what they need to do to get A's as quickly as possible.

Just my $.02

[torrpd]

I voted

[motosapiens]

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

Since when does anything about our "game" have to do with training for a gunfight? I thought that was the other 4-letter org that is the "real shooting sport".

I that was what 'practical' meant? I thought's that what jeff cooper had in mind originally.....

My advice if you have any complaints about starting positions or COF's in your local matches is to volunteer to invent (or select from the internet) and set up stages that you like better.

[lef-t]

Because it's US"P"SA. We shoot the occasional stage locally that has you get your gun out of a mailbox or carry a baby doll during the COF. I don't know about you but my gun is never in my mailbox and the last thing I would do is carry an infant child into a gunfight.

And who in their right mind would choose to carry their briefcase if they had to defend themselves with a gun?

Since when does anything about our "game" have to do with training for a gunfight? I thought that was the other 4-letter org that is the "real shooting sport".

I that was what 'practical' meant? I thought's that what jeff cooper had in mind originally.....

My advice if you have any complaints about starting positions or COF's in your local matches is to volunteer to invent (or select from the internet) and set up stages that you like better.

Agreed. Not to detract from the point of the thread, but the people who complain about start positions or other stage elements are rarely the ones helping to put on the matches.

Personally, I like using "odd" but realistic start positions such as arms crossed, one knee on ground fingers touching shoelaces, strong-hand index finger in nostril, etc.

One of our designers loves the Fonzie start with thumbs pointed upward. As long as anyone could reasonably do it, it's all part of the fun.

The biggest problem I've found with various start positions is that RO's rarely have the same interpretation of a described position and some squads may end up with a slight advantage. If I use a weird position, I try to find a picture to go along with it to eliminate any questions or misinterpretation.

[Modoc]

I don't mind varied start positions, it breaks up the repetition. Coming from a Cowboy background, for a while, we were getting into a lot of Stand and deliver stages. Even a change in the start position can break things up a bit.

Of course I have been known to take the "Hands above shoulders" start position and put my hands above the opposite shoulders (arms crossed in front). Our stage designers have since started writing the Start Position as either "Hands in the Surrender Position" or "Hands above respective shoulders" because of it

Edited August 16, 2012 by Modoc