chevyoneton Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I used to think that a 9mm Single Stack pistol was the way to go and at no real disadvantage to the big boys in Single Stack. I figured that the extra two rounds of Minor PF ammo allowed in a magazine helped make up for the scoring penalty. I have only shot one Single Stack match but I am not so sure anymore. I shot it with a .45 as my 9mm 1911 is not (yet) running right. I have been shooting Production for about a year and my highest stage finish was 5th (out of around 25). Last week shooting Single Stack my finishes were no worse than my Production finishes and I actually won a stage! Now there were far less shooters in Single Stack but I think their average ability and experience at least equaled that of our Production shooters if not exceeded it. Of course each stage and match are different. On the stage with a Texas Star I would have liked a couple more rounds but on the rest of the stages I enjoyed the Major PF scoring. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the extra rounds of 9mm allowed in a magazine off-setting the Minor PF scoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Wallace Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Let me preface my advise by saying this is my first season shooting single stack. I think most of the time you will be dropping those extra rounds anyway. With 8 shots from a single position being the max all you have to do is not miss! That being said steel heavy arrays can mess you up pretty bad when you have to clean them. There are also some stages where you may be able to engage targets in a different order with more rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg1005 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Shoot major. If you are shooting make up shots... you have already lost. I have never seen a stages where the extra two rounds advantage outweighted the disadvantage of minor scoring... never. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjamin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) i would say when you are a new shooter, it probably does offset (meaning you are missing so much those extra rounds make a difference), but as you progress as a shooter and become more accurate, major scoring is the only way to go (IMO), if you shoot accurate and plan the stage well a good shooter will shoot as fast as someone with a couple of extra rounds.. and then will score better due to major... Edited June 8, 2012 by benjamin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dover0020 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 MINOR SUCKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The search featuer is your friend. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151747&st=0&p=1703147&hl=single%20stack%20minor&fromsearch=1entry1703147 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=127431&st=0&p=1438019&hl=single%20minor&fromsearch=1entry1438019 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30118&st=0&p=347040&hl=single%20minor&fromsearch=1entry347040 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44697&st=0&p=510922&hl=single%20minor&fromsearch=1entry510922 I know there are more threads on this out there, but here are a few to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AznDragon533 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 9mm if you plan on never missing A zone.....=\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizei1 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I shoot minor, and I'm having a blast doing so. Even though I've recently placed first overall on a local match out of 10 other shooters, I placed 17/35th in the Ohio Championship (C Class). IMO, unless you're extremely fast and get all A's all the time (95%+), shoot major. What I noticed was that sometimes my times were faster, but most of the time they were actually slower, however I was usually getting more points. I still ended up losing to major though. It's just not worth it. The only reason I'm not shooting major is because I can't afford a new gun, new mags, etc. I'm just lucky to be able to use what I currently have. Edited June 8, 2012 by polizei1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkwatch Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Just checked 2012 Single Stack national result The highest minor is No.37, Julie Golob, Female No.1 Highest male using minor is no.50 that tells you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 There is no benefit to shooting SS minor, but it is a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I have come across more than a few stages where 10 would help. Let's say you are going into a 9 round stage (which I have shot a few in SS), shooting Major you have to be precise as a slide lock reload on this short stage and you are screwed! Shooting Minor you can take more of a "chance", say drawing hard on a steel target, knowing that you have a couple of back up shots. There are many times (major) where you will be on the ragged edge of a slide lock reload. Do you build a reload in or back off the throttle and go one for one? This is where Minor can come in handy. I think of SS Minor/Major debate being more of a mental game or mental advantage versus a paper or points advantage. I just feel (mentally) that I could "push" more with 10. With 8's I feel that I need to back off the throttle a bit as a slide lock reload will kill you quick on a stage. Edited June 9, 2012 by old506 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Robbie won A2 SS with minor. Julie won SS Nationals Woman this year with minor, Sara won it last year with a minor gun. An extra two rounds may come in handy in some matches and maybe not in others. There may be an advantage having less recoil or muzzle flip for some. If it makes you concentrate on accuracy that may improve your shooting in the long run. IMO: Shoot what you enjoy shooting to improve your skill set. Some years ago, at the Mid Coast Dual Championship, it was a battle of Taran shooting SS 8 rounds and Dave shooting a Glock with 10 rounds. At the end of the match, Dave had many more points. Dave explained, he could take risks knowing he had an extra two. The match also had a lot of steel and hard cover/no shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hello: If you look at the single stack nationals in the past you will see the BJ Norris shot minor. If you do the math if he shot the same but shooting major he may have won the match. I am not saying that he would have shot the same with major but it does make you think. 9mm minor in a 1911 is a pretty sweet shooter Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I recently shot a stage where there were steel on the left and right kind of an alley with a plate rack and paper behind a barrier down range. I shot major and had to do a "U" shape run, retreating to the start position to keep from having a slide lock reload. I burned the stage down (I thought) as I only had one pickup on the steel shooting while moving and no points down on the paper. Two guys shot minor and transitioned on the 180 Left Right, Left Right, etc. as they had enough to keep from doing a SLRL. With two "hoser" paper targets at arms length behind the barrier, they both beat me on that stage. Steel is going to give an advantage to Minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Shoot major. If you are shooting make up shots... you have already lost. I have never seen a stages where the extra two rounds advantage outweighted the disadvantage of minor scoring... never. Mike. You must not get to very many matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Harrington Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The best response to this question was shooting minor in SS isn't a good idea because I know I could easily beat myself if I were shooting major instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 The historical answer to your question is yes capacity does make up for it. In fact that is why we have major and minor scoring. BUT it was designed to even out the 8 round major 45 1911's we shot against the 13 round 9mm Hipowers everyone else did, Look at the early world IPSC matches. Once a high capacity major pf gun came out minor ceased being competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Shoot major. If you are shooting make up shots... you have already lost. I have never seen a stages where the extra two rounds advantage outweighted the disadvantage of minor scoring... never. Mike. You must not get to very many matches. +1 I re-shot some stages from the Single Stack Nationals today (they're still up at PASA), and we got to shoot Cigar Bar II again today. 23 pieces of steel (they took out the non-rotating Texas Star) shot thru three tubes. I split it up 8/7/8, which left me with 1/2/1 rounds in the gun as I transitioned. A Production shooter in my squad split it up 8/9/6, which left her with 3/2/5 rounds left in the gun. While I shot it faster than she did, I shot it cleaner (dropped two shots) and had the advantage of having shot it just over a month ago. A couple of us were talking and agreed Minor would be a decent trade off for this type of stage. I shoot major because I started shooting USPSA with my first 1911 back in the pre-Single Stack days and my first 1911 was a .45. I was prejudiced back then against 9mm 1911s. My views changed after I built a 1911 for my wife and she wanted it in 9mm. A 9mm 1911 is a lot of fun to shoot! I might build myself one someday and give it a run to see how I like it. Plus, if I ever decide to get back into IDPA, I could shoot it in ESP. The real answer to the question is whether you can be accurate enough at speed to MAKE Minor Single Stack into an advantage. Try analyzing your fifth place finishes in Production (way better than I usually finish) and see whether you were dropping C's and D's and that's the reason you weren't finishing higher. If so, then either work on your accuracy or shoot major to keep from dropping points--which will keep your hit factor high, if you're going the same speed as when you shoot minor. Edited June 11, 2012 by frag316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bshooter Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I mainly shoot single stack at the locals club matches. I usually finish fairly high in the standings. We don't have enough shooters to break the scores down into divisions so we are usually all lumped together. I will shoot minor just to see if I can finish as high in the standing as I do shooting major. It is also a lot of fun shooting with very little recoil. I don't plan on winning any matches, it is just the challange of shooting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Shoot major. If you are shooting make up shots... you have already lost. I have never seen a stages where the extra two rounds advantage outweighted the disadvantage of minor scoring... never. Mike. Shoot major. If you are shooting make up shots... you have already lost. I have never seen a stages where the extra two rounds advantage outweighted the disadvantage of minor scoring... never. Mike. You must not get to very many matches. Even he doesn't believe that nonsense. He was on my squad at a match at Oak Park last year where I definitely shot ten and reloaded, and for me, it was clearly faster than shooting eight (although both plans were available for the stage). When I shoot minor, I rarely shoot ten and reload. But there are stages where it proves advantageous to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I shot the Single Stack Nationals this year with 8+1 major. But I shot Area 5 with 10+1 minor, and was very glad that I did. As I have always said, it's all dependent on stage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I shot the Single Stack Nationals this year with 8+1 major. But I shot Area 5 with 10+1 minor, and was very glad that I did. As I have always said, it's all dependent on stage design. Yeah, you did a pretty good job of kicking my butt with it. There were several stages at A5 where the extra rounds would have come in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 A while back at the Calif Production/Single Stack match I saw a few folks show up with major AND minor single stack guns. They looked over the stages and then decided to shoot minor. I guess you can get both & then decide when at the match. I shoot major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 As the production class grows and the stage designs lean more and more to 10 rounds. This is making SS Minor an OK option. 8 kind of sucks on a lot of stages when they are clearly designed to be shot in 10's. Unloaded table starts with multiple sets of 8 rounds after them just suck. I have seen stages where there were 3 or 4 slide lock reloads for an 8 round gun. Make up a shot and you add a standing reload. At area 6 there were at least 5 stages where having 10 rounds let you shoot a stage in a much better way. At the SC Sectional at least half of them broke down better in 10's. You either saved a reload at a place where you only had 1 step or got to shoot the targets in a better place. The all steel stage at Area 6 was a bonus for minor. When you are shooting 8 and have to make up a shot life gets very complicated in a hurry. Some of the advantages are many more options for your stage plan, make up shots, less recoil, and less cost. The disadvantage is points. I think it is a fair trade but YMMV. The idea of looking at the stages, then making up your mind is probalby a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) The rules still require 8 round neutrality so stages are not "leaning" toward ten rounds. It is just sometimes easier to break a stage down in such a manner that the two extra rounds are helpful, and that's when single stack minor pays off. It may mean shooting ten, reloading, and shooting six. It still may be faster to save the reload for after ten rounds instead of eight. Edited June 26, 2012 by twodownzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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