Colt 2012 3 Man 3 Gun Series

[CJW]

Given that last column, I am assuming that we're treating each *stage* as 100 points (100%). That way, you can easily add up performance across both matches for a final score.

Also, if you were using straight time-plus for the whole match, then nobody who had a shooter DQ'ed should be showing up, period. The fact that DQs seem to be treated as just a stage zero tells me this was a 600 point match with 100 points to be awarded on each of six stages...

[steviesterno]

I don't think it's time plus... with so many teams timing out on random stages, I believe (but can't/won't speak for the MD) that we did a percentage like in uspsa. Then did that for the best team on each stage, and gave everyone a percentage of that score. Add up the percentages and there you go.

this would be needed for people that DQ. a Zero on a stage in Time Plus would actually be an advantage. I think this method is fair, and it means one terrible stage (our stage 6) doesn't ruin the whole match for us...

[gotm4]

I guess my main beef is reading the rules as they were made available. I don't care what they do in Rome since we aren't in Rome.

Edited May 22, 2012 by gotm4

[45shooter]

As with most major matches stages are scored time plus, but then the percentage or point system is used. This was especially important in a series when if a team member is dq'd the team is allowed to continue at that match short a person or they would be out of entire series. They still need a score in this case a 0 for that stage. If scored total time there would be no way to put down a score for them for the series. This system also makes all stages equally important. We worked long and hard figuring all this out to make it as fair as possible. I know some teams that had a member dq still beat other teams but that is the way it works out. If I were shooting and a team took a zero and still beat me I would be upset, at myself for not shooting better. Not at them for beating me.

[45shooter]

Plus I explained this and the way it would be scored during the shooters meeting.

[bigjimmy57]

I don't think it's time plus... with so many teams timing out on random stages, I believe (but can't/won't speak for the MD) that we did a percentage like in uspsa. Then did that for the best team on each stage, and gave everyone a percentage of that score. Add up the percentages and there you go.

this would be needed for people that DQ. a Zero on a stage in Time Plus would actually be an advantage. I think this method is fair, and it means one terrible stage (our stage 6) doesn't ruin the whole match for us...

Stage 6 was a killer for us also. My barrel nut came a little loose on the drive up from GA. Didn't realize it til I was shooting and not hitting anything. I only hit one plate on stage 6. If it wasn't for the way he is doing the scoring our team would have been way down.

[DyNo!]

It was a great match and I'm sold on the format for sure now. I'm looking forward to the next one and it would be great to see more matches like this around the country, local & major.

Could you post the updated scores on Enos when they're up? Thanks!

[stormbringer]

Plus I explained this and the way it would be scored during the shooters meeting.

you did indeed explain and it makes total sense for a match structure such as this with component matches.

Now back to practice so teams that had a DQ cannot continue to beat our sorry Canadian Butts.

[StephensOutdoors]

Awesome match! Lots of fun stages & good people too

[CmbtEngr]

Video posted by Noveske-Colt team...those boys sure are fast. http://www.youtube.c...tingTeam/videos

[gotm4]

Just to show how badly the modifier formula skewed the numbers, First 30 teams scores with the weird formula ended up like this:

1. 505.17

2. 577.23

3. 603.69

4. 766.40

5. 594.85

6. 612.12

7. 817.42

8. 841.91

9. 673.13

10. 443.14 DQ'd on stage 4

11. 722.43

12. 812.67

13. 825.04

14. 967.95

15. 1000.74

16. 822.05

17. 965.70

18. 982.99

19. 938.69

20. 905.05

21. 883.09

22. 857.78

23. 888.40

24. 867.62

25. 923.08

26. 1220.74

27. 974.70

28. 912.57

29. 1074.43

30. 967.85

So in the end it really isn't Time-Plus.....

[NovaShooter]

Robb

After I woke up from my strep throat and sinus infection induced coma today I saw the results.

If you add the 240 time out for Stage 4 where we DQ'd we ended up with 683.14 vs. VA Arms 673.13. That is straight time plus.

Not sure how the current scoring formula differs from time plus.

[waktasz]

You'd need to add misses and FTEs for all remaining targets too. Not sure how that would have changed the results for some people but the bottom line is I got my butt kicked and the scoring method wouldn't have fixed that!

[jar]

Just to show how badly the modifier formula skewed the numbers, First 30 teams scores with the weird formula ended up like this:

So in the end it really isn't Time-Plus.....

I wouldn't call it a weird formula. It's how all of the major 3 gun matches work.

[DyNo!]

Don't worry guys, it's a marathon and not a sprint - we're only 1/3 done!

Spike's Shooting Team @ the match - 2nd so far:

Edited May 23, 2012 by DyNo!

[gotm4]

1. And at ALL other matches DQs go home due to safety and none of your score counts for nothing. 2. This scoring method wasn't listed in the rules.

IMHO a shooter that DQs their team on a stage: that team on that stage should receive the max time allowed and the FTEs and misses counted for the DQd shooter of that Team. But I digress...

Edited May 23, 2012 by gotm4

[steviesterno]

It's a team match, but we all did pay a bunch of money in travel and ammo to come up. If your teammate does something silly and gets DQed for it, that doesn't mean we should all suffer and be out of the running. If a team can beat me with just 2 guys and a zeroed stage, it shows that I should get my ass off the computer and onto the range.

Dyno, did I end up chatting with you on stage 6 while you guys watched? I thought you looked familiar, but didn't want to say "Hey, you look like that goofy avatar on Enos!".

It was a really great match, good and challenging, and a pile of fun. I think the format and scoring make perfect sense. One bad stage doesn't ruin it for you, or take you out of the running if you bust your ass on the next set.

Besides, isn't this all about turning money into smoke and noise and having a good time on a nice day?

[sono]

Besides, isn't this all about turning money into smoke and noise and having a good time on a nice day?

Yes it! I've been to matches that left much more to complain about. The system makes sense to me. Again, this was a great match and we are looking forward to the next one.

[sdm74]

It's a team match, but we all did pay a bunch of money in travel and ammo to come up. If your teammate does something silly and gets DQed for it, that doesn't mean we should all suffer and be out of the running. If a team can beat me with just 2 guys and a zeroed stage, it shows that I should get my ass off the computer and onto the range.

Dyno, did I end up chatting with you on stage 6 while you guys watched? I thought you looked familiar, but didn't want to say "Hey, you look like that goofy avatar on Enos!".

It was a really great match, good and challenging, and a pile of fun. I think the format and scoring make perfect sense. One bad stage doesn't ruin it for you, or take you out of the running if you bust your ass on the next set.

Besides, isn't this all about turning money into smoke and noise and having a good time on a nice day?

Actually steve having two greg jordans ain't much of a hindrance ...lmao

[45shooter]

First all of I would like to say in the rules it describes the scoring of targets as per almost all major 3 gun matches that use time plus. I admit this cause I copied the scoring rules from a major match. They also use this scoring system, as do many. Most 3 gun shooters realize this and accept it as a normal system. As this is a team match and not based on individual skill, if you get dq'd it would be unfair in my eyes to send your whole team home and basically blow them out of the water for the entire series. They all paid the entry fee and spent time practicing and traveling to the match. If I sent the whole team home, why would they even bother on showing up to shoot the second match. This would also make me consider entering a match like this if I were shooting myself. All the stages were worth the same amount of points. What some people seem confused about is total time scoring and time plus. Two very different scoring systems. I know that some teams did move up or down in ranking if you scored the match by total time. I bet if I used A B C D scoring it would change as well. Maybe if I gave points for the best looking team the scoring would change again. Fact is I explained the scoring system during the shooters meeting in the morning, as well as the proceedures if a person got DQ'd. Nobody asked any questions. I know some people may have had their feelings hurt by getting beat by a team that zeroed a stage, as someone else posted maybe more practice time and less time at the computer would fix that. If M4 4 is so upset I will refund his money for the 2nd match and shoot for his team in his place, since I really hated not pulling the trigger and only running the match. His team members have my number.

On a lighter note, I would like to thank all the shooters that came out and shot the match. Things went well and I think we got you guys off the range in a good amount of time. Over 165 shooters through 6 stages in 8.5 hours may not be the best, but pretty good. I have some great ideas for the WV stages, count on more rolling thunder stages and more movement as well. The bays down there are much bigger and will allow me to do more of those type stages. Some long pistol shots, maybe 50-60 yards. Also count on some 350-400 yard targets. They will be bigger than the one you shot at this past weekend, but not by much. As this type of match progresses thing will get better and run smoother. Being a pretty new format I think that we did a good job. Thanks to all the Ro's that worked and shot as well as helped clean up and set up the stages. see ya in WV

Edited May 23, 2012 by 45shooter

[jar]

IMHO a shooter that DQs their team on a stage: that team on that stage should receive the max time allowed and the FTEs and misses counted for the DQd shooter of that Team. But I digress...

That would give them a better score than the zero that they got in the match results.

[sdm74]

System does work good to be able to be right back in the hunt the second half of series.

one or two good stages and you can be right back in contention.

[gotm4]

I'll finish the match I started with my team for this 2012 Colt Series.....I do what I say and say what I mean.

It is a very fun match no doubt and yes we also traveled far and spent a lot of money to attend it. ESPECIALLY since there are cash/prizes and huge sponsors. And well known shooters attending. Just never know this was like golf and bowling with handicaps and all. No hard feelings really.....

[stormbringer]

Team Arrruggalaaaa

[glock34shooter]

I am member of one of the teams that is on the short side of the scoring system also, but I'm not butt hurt about it. We are currently 11th and if it was just time based we would be 7th. It is what it is. I had a great time and I enjoyed seeing friends and shooting with my team mates. I want to finish as well as everyone else, but I am not gripe and complain about it now. I think we sometimes lose perspective of what is really important. This is about have fun and enjoying ourselves. This is one of the big reasons I am against cash pay out in matches. It changes people and sometimes brings out a side in them we did not know existed. Would I be happy to win a few thousand dollar? Sure, but not at the expense of alienating other shooters a ruining the match for my team mates. I would like to think we are all better than this.

Matt

Oh and Dean I am still willing to buy you a few cheese burgers and fries to take my teams penalties back.