IDPA World Shoot thoughts

[sirveyr]

Range Commands

I have been watching some videos from the World Shoot and I've noticed that there were a lot of non-standard range commands given to the shooters.

LAMR:

"load it up"

"gimme six"

"does the shooter understand the COF"

ITSR:

"gimme a nod when your ready"

ULSC:

"drop the magazine"

"mag out"

"if you are finished show me clear"

"if you are finished lemme me see clear, I see clear, stand and shoot the berm"

SFHD:

"slide it, hammer it"

I know this isn't a huge deal to some people, but standard range commands are what allows IDPA to be International. Being that this was a World Championship, I would've thought that using the standard IDPA commands would've been of the utmost importance. I have witnessed foreign shooters stare at an SO when the SO told him to "Gas it up!" instead of LAMR and I've seen a shooter LAMR when the SO said," Do ya understand the COF?"

Note to Duane: I am not bashing IDPA, the IDPA World Championship, IDPA HQ, the IDPA rule book,or any of the hard working SO/match staff, I am merely noting some observations.

Those are some funny ones for sure. But do you think they got paid more since it was a World Shoot? I'm just sayin... because I do both USPSA and IDPA... and I'll be damned if I don't mix them up from time to time.

I think the SO's get double their usual wage at a World Shoot. The whole SO/RO thing has yet to be like the brochure promised. I've tried to multiply working for free X2 and I still get nothing...huh?

I must admit that it is quite a verbal train wreck when I run the first few shooters at either match.

Edited September 27, 2011 by sirveyr

[Chills1994]

Inconsistent range commands and/or just the plain wrong ones not dictated in the rulebook are my first clues that an RO/SO may...may...not know what he is doing and/or doesn't know the rulebook or some of the rationale behind its edicts.

And if I wasn't such a nice and honest guy, I could use that to my advantage and totally buffalo or bully an RO/SO into making a call which gives me a better score.

I know for a fact there are a few personalities out there roaming around at major matches who do use that to their advantage and I have seen them buffalo RO's/SO's into giving them a better score. Those same personalities have bragged to me about it after the match, "HA! Did you see how I bullsh _ _ _ ed that SO on stage number 7 to call that a down zero? Hee! Hee!"

With my hatcam videos posted to YouTube and the now defunct video.google.com, I have had several higher highers email me or PM me to say, "Good GAWD! Man! The officiating at that much totally sucked!"

[jar]

With regards to the range commands. After six days in that godawful heat with all the rain, bugs, and whatnot, they may just have been tired and messed up the range commands. I know when I get very tired "range is safe" alternates with "range is clear" sometimes. Most of us officiate more than one sport after all.

And since some of the SO's are life members of the NRA and their hearing is not what it should be, I have learned to excuse the "Nod when you are ready" command when I hear it as some of them cannot hear you too well when your back is to them.

Ted Murphy

Mixing up commands from other sports is no big deal. I really get annoyed at the more off the wall ones though. It just sounds very unprofessional for a major match and has the potential for confusion by non-native speakers mentioned above. That's especially important for something billed as a world match. I'm not a fan of nod when you're ready, but I've learned to get along. It used to really bug me along with any time they SO waited for me to respond. I'll let you know if I'm not ready, otherwise drive on. I simply don't assume the start position until I'm ready. If it's just a standing start, I leave my hand on the gun until I'm ready to go.

[Strick]

So.........."stoke it, stroke it, and make it hot" would not be good?

[Merlin Orr]

With regards to the range commands. After six days in that godawful heat with all the rain, bugs, and whatnot, they may just have been tired and messed up the range commands. I know when I get very tired "range is safe" alternates with "range is clear" sometimes. Most of us officiate more than one sport after all.

And since some of the SO's are life members of the NRA and their hearing is not what it should be, I have learned to excuse the "Nod when you are ready" command when I hear it as some of them cannot hear you too well when your back is to them.

Ted Murphy

Mixing up commands from other sports is no big deal. I really get annoyed at the more off the wall ones though. It just sounds very unprofessional for a major match and has the potential for confusion by non-native speakers mentioned above. That's especially important for something billed as a world match. I'm not a fan of nod when you're ready, but I've learned to get along. It used to really bug me along with any time they SO waited for me to respond. I'll let you know if I'm not ready, otherwise drive on. I simply don't assume the start position until I'm ready. If it's just a standing start, I leave my hand on the gun until I'm ready to go.

I like/sometimes need the "gimme a nod" command... and...as strange as it sounds I agree (to some extent) with both of the above. I do try to use proper range commands when I run shooters - most of the time. Can really see it's importance when you have foreign shooters, new shooters, dumb as a rock shooters or, most importantly, anal one way MF shooters.....

I think proper commands really ought to be a/the goal for all of us.

[Don Springer]

I'm still trying to remember where I first heard "Gas 'er up".

[hankfan79]

With regards to the range commands. After six days in that godawful heat with all the rain, bugs, and whatnot, they may just have been tired and messed up the range commands. I know when I get very tired "range is safe" alternates with "range is clear" sometimes. Most of us officiate more than one sport after all.

And since some of the SO's are life members of the NRA and their hearing is not what it should be, I have learned to excuse the "Nod when you are ready" command when I hear it as some of them cannot hear you too well when your back is to them.

Ted Murphy

Mixing up commands from other sports is no big deal. I really get annoyed at the more off the wall ones though. It just sounds very unprofessional for a major match and has the potential for confusion by non-native speakers mentioned above. That's especially important for something billed as a world match. I'm not a fan of nod when you're ready, but I've learned to get along. It used to really bug me along with any time they SO waited for me to respond. I'll let you know if I'm not ready, otherwise drive on. I simply don't assume the start position until I'm ready. If it's just a standing start, I leave my hand on the gun until I'm ready to go.

I think proper commands really ought to be a/the goal for all of us.

I agree. But using different "lingo" doesn't make you a bad S.O. It doesn't hurt your score and the ones who complain the most about it...well...it could only help theirs If Robert Ray didn't say anything to Koski for his...then I am not worried about it. Get over it and shoot or nit pick about it and everyone will remember you on the range and wish you never came.

[Ronnie j]

If you agree that "gas em up " is acceptable for LAMR , then can we assume you accept "whoa" as STOP. Inconsistancys in in verbal commands is crucial to safety. If it's in the book I expect to hear it, and not a whole lot else.

[hankfan79]

For STOP...I use STOP. "Nod when your ready" has nothing to do with safety

Assumption is the mother of all F ups.

[Paul-the new guy]

its supposed to be fun, right? I dont think my safety was put in jepordy by an SO saying "gas em up" after all we were not loading and making ready. I also like "give me nod when you are ready"

[lugnut]

I know for a fact there are a few personalities out there roaming around at major matches who do use that to their advantage and I have seen them buffalo RO's/SO's into giving them a better score. Those same personalities have bragged to me about it after the match, "HA! Did you see how I bullsh _ _ _ ed that SO on stage number 7 to call that a down zero? Hee! Hee!"

I've seen this happen and man does it rip me! I've actually had blow outs with good friends that have tried this crap. On the other hand- we are a small community.... these people will get called out when they don't expect it.

[jar]

So.........."stoke it, stroke it, and make it hot" would not be good?

I've used 'stoke it, stroke it, flick it, and stick it' in group practices before, but I'd never do it in a sanctioned match.

A friend of mine has the list of commands for both games taped to the back of his timer so he doesn't mix them up.

Edited September 28, 2011 by jar

[shred]

At anything billed as a "World" championship, the SO's had better be able to give pretty close to the correct commands or there will be problems when Team Foreign shows up. At the IPSC Worlds some of the ROs and shooters clearly don't speak much English at all, but they give the same commands in English as everybody else, which works well. I've been to matches in Central America where the range commands were all in Spanish. That's tough for a gringo like me sometimes, even if there isn't any extra chatter.

[Steve Koski]

If Robert Ray didn't say anything to Koski for his...then I am not worried about it.

Rest assured that the folks from HQ aren't continually correcting mistakes/problems (which they could). That isn't their role on match day.

[prreed10]

One thing about the "nod when ready" is some folks nod in acknowledgment, which makes it look like they are ready, but are actually not.

[Filishooter]

This was posted on an Italian shooters facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/andrea-lazzarini/idpa-world-champhionship-review-recensione-del-mondiale-idpa/10150307146512773Mondiale IDPA

* IDPA World Champhionship review - Recensione del Mondiale IDPA

by Andrea Lazzarini on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 at 7:00am

This is intended to be my personal review about the recently held IDPA World Championship.

I'm pretty sure that someone will be pissed about it. Well, sincerely: I don't give a damn.

-Thanks to Safety Officers-

First to all, I would like to thank all the Safety Officers. They worked hard all the time, in difficult weather conditions (pouring rain and sticky Florida hot), and they did their best to keep the match going on. I was really impressed by their kinkdness and patience as well. You, Ladies and Gentlemen, are the real backbone of this sport. Thank you again for your hard work, I highly appreciated it.

-Match and Stages Design-

The match stages were nicely designed, nothing to complain about. There were a lot of bobbers and movers that made the shooting not easy, as a World Championship should be. Some shooting from inside of cars would have been nice as well, I really enjoyed it at the 2010 Nats in Tulsa -OK-

-Shooting Range and Location choice-

The choice of the shooting range was awful. The Frank Garcia's Universal Shooting Academy in Frostproof -FL- is the worse shooting range I've ever seen in the US, no doubt about it.

It had very low walls with poor safety, and the ground just couldn't absorb the huge amount of water due to the frequent rain. The range rapidly turned into a pond.

The internal roads were full of mud, and so the parking lot.

Btw: I got stuck in mud in the parking lot with my Chevy Suburban, thanks to Mr. Ray for pulling me out with his 4wheel truck.

Bays were facing east and west, so the shooter in the early morning and in the evening had the sun directly on his face. Men, I just couldn't see my sights , sometimes I had to point-shoot ,my targets hoping to get my hits.

Tough, Florida is known to be rainy during this period, so I can't really understand that choice of location.

That made me miss the United States Shooting Academy where the 2010 IDPA Nats were held, best range I've ever seen.

-Match Organization-

Terrible.

My first day of shooting, wednesday afternoon shift, ended after 7pm due to bad weather , and I shot the last stage in poor light conditions. And that after waiting for at least two hours for the end of the rain.

My second day of shooting, thursday morning shift, started ad 07.20am with a shiny rising sun directly in my eyes. As I said before, I had to point-shoot my targets because I was unable to see my sights. No rain this time, but the sticky Florida hot, very hard to stand for me.

And after day 1, a surprise came: FIVE, I say FIVE stages that I had already shot were cancelled from the Match to make it go through faster. The thing happened without official communication and excuses as well.

This is EFFING RIDICULOUS, and shouldn't happen in a World Shoot. Shame on You!

-Award Ceremony and Dinner-

In comparison with the 2010 Tulsa Nats Award Ceremony held in Hilton Hotel: TOTAL FAIL.

The ceremony was held in a tent structure raised in the parking lot of the Westgate River Ranch. I paid 30 bucks for having a single dish with veggies, some pork and some chicken, a beer and a slice of pie; and not served to my table but in a buffet-style and after a very long queue.

If I had known before, I would have saved my money. No doubt about it.

It was hard to hear what the speaker said, because of poor sound system that didn't help my bad english.

-Awards-

The medal I got as member of the Italian Official Team is a made-in-China (f*ck!) and can be easily bent with hands. Do I need to say more?

-Conclusions-

I'm totally unsatisfied about the 2011 IDPA World Championship. It was the inaugural one and it should have been a blast, but it happened to be a fail; and not worth the registration fee I paid.

Btw: as I wrote in a note that can be found on my FB profile, this has been the last IDPA match of my life because of IDPA HQ's abominable behaviour towards IDPA Italy, gone on since april 2011. My membership card has already been processed by my office's shredder.

10-10 over and out.

Andrea Lazzarini

ex IT1265 – ESR MA and hard working Safety Officer

Edited September 28, 2011 by Filishooter

[Ahab]

I think the criticism of the banquet is totally valid; at the table I was sitting at I had water coming in under my feet during the banquet.

The problem thought isn't necessarily IDPA's though as it is poor selection of the match hotel. I completely disagree with the criticisms of the range inasumch as Frank's facility works very well as long as it's not pouring rain.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Ahab

[Chuck Anderson]

Gotta say I never thought I would see someone criticize a match location for being muddy compared to Tulsa.

[Ted Murphy]

Gotta say I never thought I would see someone criticize a match location for being muddy compared to Tulsa.

LOL. That place was an absolute nightmare. Rumor had it the Steel Challenge People were there during the match and were absolutely horrified.

I thought the fire ant hole my wife stepped on under the lunch tent was a nice touch too. She still has trouble getting into her one shoe as the swelling has not gone all away.

I know one shooter upon leaving the range for the last time stopped, got out of his car, and shouted, "F- this place!". Then happily left.

Ted

[konkapot]

They removed stages from the match in the interest of time?

Seriously?

FY42385

[PSSOH22]

I did not attend, but I am surprised to hear so many positive comments. I am good friends with my AC and as soon as monday morning hit, he was getting calls with complaints. The most common theme was, from start to finish it was a complete failure! That is not good to hear for sure especially because good or bad SO's, they still worked their tails off im sure. Ive heard more planning and execution problems then the actual match design, but either way it is no good! A world shoot should be the best match one has ever shot in their IDPA experiences. I have heard from some hardcore IDPA guys that they will not be participating in the sport anymore and that is drastic considering that is the only action pistol they shoot...

[MBaneACP]

First a caveat — I haven't really shot IDPA competitively in 5 years, and I attended the Worlds at the invitation of Joyce Wilson and Robert Ray. I have, however, attended as many...or perhaps more...shooting matches than most.

I thought the Worlds were excellently run, with challenging courses and SOs who did a fine, fine job in hellish conditions. The conditions are the range sucked hard...I was constantly worried about my crew, especially the poor videographer strapped into the Steady-Cam rig for 3 days.

Michael B

[Pete Whyte]

I've lived in Florida year-round years ago. Not a nice place to be in Sept. I thought it odd to have a world shoot at that time of the year in Florida,& that is the only reason I did not go down to shoot it.

[Steve J]

Gotta say I never thought I would see someone criticize a match location for being muddy compared to Tulsa.

Tulsa was beautiful last year during the IDPA Nationals. There was rain before the match, but the bays were dry. The conditions there with normal rainfall are no longer an issue. USPSA should move their nats back to the USSA. It's a lot better than the desert.

[Mike21STI]

I would have liked to gone down to the match but unfortunately wasn't able to make it down there. A couple friends of mine did go and said the match was challenging and seemed to have a few logistical issues such as not telling the shooters what bay they were starting in during the shooters meeting.

One of my friends who shot the match said that the targets were all shot up and didn't seem to be changed on a normal basis which is frustrating as a competitor because you can't actually see your hits after they have been blasted and taped over so many times (especially head shot targets), I know when I've worked a sanctioned match we changed targets out every squad to allow for the shooter to be able to see their shots and take the guessing game out of it.

My friend also had a gripe about the fact he was down range taping and the buzzer went off with a shooter on the line while he was still down range. Safety is key and I understand these were hot days and mistakes happen but this type of mistake should not have happened.

I'm not bashing the match by any means. I do love competing in IDPA and hope to make it down to the World shoot one day but wanted to voice some of the things I had heard about the match.